Post subject: Re: Mammoth Carcas found in Siberia: Fresh blood and tissue!
Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:34 pm
Elite Member
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 5336 Location:
Never say never
-JB
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Guild Wars 2, Isle of Janthir (NA)
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken.
Unfortunately I think I spoke too soon :/ We still need a egg cell to make this work, unless by some stupid luck a normal Elephant's is still compatible.
Still I think it should be possible eventually. Technically these guys made a sperm cell from blood, so an egg cell should be possible too, right?
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Day[9] wrote:
"Tea is a lot like gold expansions - it helps you kill people." - Day[9] Daily 337 -
It's not quite the same, but in a matter of speaking it's kinda close.
Quote:
The process, known as somatic cell nuclear transfer, involves transferring the nucleus from an adult body cell - such as a blood or skin cell - into an unfertilised egg that has had its nucleus removed.
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Day[9] wrote:
"Tea is a lot like gold expansions - it helps you kill people." - Day[9] Daily 337 -
^Well, it will take time for them to grow the population large enough for hunting.
Well, It won't happen... because they wouldn't survive, in the long run.
poehalcho wrote:
made a sperm cell from blood, so an egg cell should be possible too, right?
That sound like science fiction. lulz
Why do you keep repeating that it won't survive? And no, that isn't science fiction, scientist managed to create sperm cells using, as poe said, blood. (I think it was blood, but I'm not sure, I've heard about that like 2 years ago or something along those lines)
MrJoey wrote:
Anyone else notice that *Blackfox is stupidly opinionated and seems to think his opinion = fact?
Post subject: Re: Mammoth Carcas found in Siberia: Fresh blood and tissue!
Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:36 pm
Forum Legend
Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 7923 Location:
They can't create "sperm from blood" Never heard of such a thing!
But...
Quote:
By replacing the nuclei of egg cells from an elephant with those taken from the mammoth's somatic cells, embryos with mammoth DNA could be produced and planted into elephant
Btw: How would they survive? "Just don't say zoo!"
They can't create "sperm from blood" Never heard of such a thing!
But...
Quote:
By replacing the nuclei of egg cells from an elephant with those taken from the mammoth's somatic cells, embryos with mammoth DNA could be produced and planted into elephant
Btw: How would they survive? "Just don't say zoo!"
Yeah, because you haven't heard of something, it's not real/possible. Exactly what we're saying. You're too limited.
Post subject: Re: Mammoth Carcas found in Siberia: Fresh blood and tissue!
Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:37 am
Elite Member
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 5985 Location: ...
*BlackFox wrote:
I'm Just Sayin'... OMFG ^
Anyway, Just hope they don't do the same with the T Rex! Imagine T-Rex on the Loose! @MrJoey lulz
T-Rexes weren't actually like they have been portrayed all this time in movies etc. As with basically all dinosaurs out there. Recent studies have shown that T-Rex had feathers, wasn't able to move fast, and was a scavenger rather than a predator.
Of course we don't know what psychological effects it may have on the T-Rex to have one in modern civilisation and people could go mental and cause more problems themselves.
Post subject: Re: Mammoth Carcas found in Siberia: Fresh blood and tissue!
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:16 pm
Forum Legend
Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 7923 Location:
WHAT ARE THE RISKS OF CLONING?
Spoiler!
Quote:
When we hear of cloning successes, we learn about only the few attempts that worked. What we don't see are the many, many cloning experiments that failed! And even in the successful clones, problems tend to arise later, during the animal's development to adulthood.
Cloning animals shows us what might happen if we try to clone humans. What have these animals taught us about the risks of cloning?
1. High failure rate
Cloning animals through somatic cell nuclear transfer is simply inefficient. The success rate ranges from 0.1 percent to 3 percent, which means that for every 1000 tries, only one to 30 clones are made. Or you can look at it as 970 to 999 failures in 1000 tries. That's a lot of effort with only a speck of a return!
Why is this? Here are some reasons:
The enucleated egg and the transferred nucleus may not be compatible An egg with a newly transferred nucleus may not begin to divide or develop properly Implantation of the embryo into the surrogate mother might fail The pregnancy itself might fail
2. Problems during later development
Cloned animals that do survive tend to be much bigger at birth than their natural counterparts. Scientists call this "Large Offspring Syndrome" (LOS). Clones with LOS have abnormally large organs. This can lead to breathing, blood flow and other problems.
Because LOS doesn't always occur, scientists cannot reliably predict whether it will happen in any given clone. Also, some clones without LOS have developed kidney or brain malformations and impaired immune systems, which can cause problems later in life.
3.Abnormal gene expression patterns
Are the surviving clones really clones? The clones look like the originals, and their DNA sequences are identical. But will the clone express the right genes at the right time?
In Click and Clone, we saw that one challenge is to re-program the transferred nucleus to behave as though it belongs in a very early embryonic cell. This mimics natural development, which starts when a sperm fertilizes an egg.
In a naturally-created embryo, the DNA is programmed to express a certain set of genes. Later on, as the embryonic cells begin to differentiate, the program changes. For every type of differentiated cell - skin, blood, bone or nerve, for example - this program is different.
In cloning, the transferred nucleus doesn't have the same program as a natural embryo. It is up to the scientist to reprogram the nucleus, like teaching an old dog new tricks. Complete reprogramming is needed for normal or near-normal development. Incomplete programming will cause the embryo to develop abnormally or fail.
When we hear of cloning successes, we learn about only the few attempts that worked. What we don't see are the many, many cloning experiments that failed! And even in the successful clones, problems tend to arise later, during the animal's development to adulthood.
Cloning animals shows us what might happen if we try to clone humans. What have these animals taught us about the risks of cloning?
1. High failure rate
Cloning animals through somatic cell nuclear transfer is simply inefficient. The success rate ranges from 0.1 percent to 3 percent, which means that for every 1000 tries, only one to 30 clones are made. Or you can look at it as 970 to 999 failures in 1000 tries. That's a lot of effort with only a speck of a return!
Why is this? Here are some reasons:
The enucleated egg and the transferred nucleus may not be compatible An egg with a newly transferred nucleus may not begin to divide or develop properly Implantation of the embryo into the surrogate mother might fail The pregnancy itself might fail
2. Problems during later development
Cloned animals that do survive tend to be much bigger at birth than their natural counterparts. Scientists call this "Large Offspring Syndrome" (LOS). Clones with LOS have abnormally large organs. This can lead to breathing, blood flow and other problems.
Because LOS doesn't always occur, scientists cannot reliably predict whether it will happen in any given clone. Also, some clones without LOS have developed kidney or brain malformations and impaired immune systems, which can cause problems later in life.
3.Abnormal gene expression patterns
Are the surviving clones really clones? The clones look like the originals, and their DNA sequences are identical. But will the clone express the right genes at the right time?
In Click and Clone, we saw that one challenge is to re-program the transferred nucleus to behave as though it belongs in a very early embryonic cell. This mimics natural development, which starts when a sperm fertilizes an egg.
In a naturally-created embryo, the DNA is programmed to express a certain set of genes. Later on, as the embryonic cells begin to differentiate, the program changes. For every type of differentiated cell - skin, blood, bone or nerve, for example - this program is different.
In cloning, the transferred nucleus doesn't have the same program as a natural embryo. It is up to the scientist to reprogram the nucleus, like teaching an old dog new tricks. Complete reprogramming is needed for normal or near-normal development. Incomplete programming will cause the embryo to develop abnormally or fail.
Those aren't really risks... Those are more like bugs. It's just a matter of time before they are ironed out (a long time). It's just stuff we haven't figured out yet...
The only thing in there that sort of matters is that Large Organ thing. (unless it's source lies in the programming of the nucleus, then it's 2 birds with one stone once that's completed.)
_________________
Day[9] wrote:
"Tea is a lot like gold expansions - it helps you kill people." - Day[9] Daily 337 -
When we hear of cloning successes, we learn about only the few attempts that worked. What we don't see are the many, many cloning experiments that failed! And even in the successful clones, problems tend to arise later, during the animal's development to adulthood.
Cloning animals shows us what might happen if we try to clone humans. What have these animals taught us about the risks of cloning?
1. High failure rate
Cloning animals through somatic cell nuclear transfer is simply inefficient. The success rate ranges from 0.1 percent to 3 percent, which means that for every 1000 tries, only one to 30 clones are made. Or you can look at it as 970 to 999 failures in 1000 tries. That's a lot of effort with only a speck of a return!
Why is this? Here are some reasons:
The enucleated egg and the transferred nucleus may not be compatible An egg with a newly transferred nucleus may not begin to divide or develop properly Implantation of the embryo into the surrogate mother might fail The pregnancy itself might fail
2. Problems during later development
Cloned animals that do survive tend to be much bigger at birth than their natural counterparts. Scientists call this "Large Offspring Syndrome" (LOS). Clones with LOS have abnormally large organs. This can lead to breathing, blood flow and other problems.
Because LOS doesn't always occur, scientists cannot reliably predict whether it will happen in any given clone. Also, some clones without LOS have developed kidney or brain malformations and impaired immune systems, which can cause problems later in life.
3.Abnormal gene expression patterns
Are the surviving clones really clones? The clones look like the originals, and their DNA sequences are identical. But will the clone express the right genes at the right time?
In Click and Clone, we saw that one challenge is to re-program the transferred nucleus to behave as though it belongs in a very early embryonic cell. This mimics natural development, which starts when a sperm fertilizes an egg.
In a naturally-created embryo, the DNA is programmed to express a certain set of genes. Later on, as the embryonic cells begin to differentiate, the program changes. For every type of differentiated cell - skin, blood, bone or nerve, for example - this program is different.
In cloning, the transferred nucleus doesn't have the same program as a natural embryo. It is up to the scientist to reprogram the nucleus, like teaching an old dog new tricks. Complete reprogramming is needed for normal or near-normal development. Incomplete programming will cause the embryo to develop abnormally or fail.
We were talking about cloning animals, not humans. Of course we won't clone humans until everything is sorted out, maybe not even that. Btw, check the name of the topic. Definitely not human.
Post subject: Re: Mammoth Carcas found in Siberia: Fresh blood and tissue!
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:08 pm
Forum Legend
Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 7923 Location:
Also I'm talking about cloning animals/humans Seriously, some people figure cloning of animals is okay... but not cloning of humans.. eh? Well, cloning sounds like a cool idea... But honestly "look at the negatives!"
Also I'm talking about cloning animals/humans Seriously, some people figure cloning of animals is okay... but not cloning of humans.. eh? Well, cloning sounds like a cool idea... But honestly "look at the negatives!"
The only negatives that are real negatives are moral issues. (and maybe money costs >_>) No moral issues have actually been mentioned yet.
regardless, the general consensus around cloning is: it's ok to clone non-intelligent life. It's not okay to clone intelligent life. The issue that comes up next is 'what exactly is considered intelligent life'.
There was a documentary not too long ago about an ape that was capable of performing incredibly well at memory IQ tests, much more than any human. It could memorise multiple things shown to it for less than a 30 miliseconds. Yet that Ape was ultimately not really acknowledge as intelligent life yet. Why? Because despite it's incredible memory, the Ape was incapable of realising that other beings could do similar things. It was not aware of the intelligence of others, not trying to seek it out.
I think that might be a fairly good bar though. Intelligent life needs to be aware of it's own intelligence and the possibility of others having it as well.
_________________
Day[9] wrote:
"Tea is a lot like gold expansions - it helps you kill people." - Day[9] Daily 337 -
I'm not very informed about dolphins. But I believe they are closer to the definition of intelligent than apes at the moment.
You often hear these stories of Dolphins helping humans out. Sounds like it's the animal that is closest to natural communication with humans. Like they understand what we try to do, so they help out.
Like fishermen working together with dolphins without training of any kind. The dolphins would just scare fish into the direction of the fishermen to help them with their catch (something I just happened to hear on discovery/NG 2-3 days ago)
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Day[9] wrote:
"Tea is a lot like gold expansions - it helps you kill people." - Day[9] Daily 337 -
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