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i just can't agree that using clones to perform a technique that most capable ninja can do with one hand is a sign of progression. Using one hand isn't the hard way to do its the right way. Most ninja don't have the option of just being able to make unlimited shadow clones to pull all that technique so they have to actually learn to control their chakra. Still using clones means that naruto still doesn't know how to control his chakra.

I'm never going to be impressed by naruto just throwing around rasengans and clones, not when the manga has shown there is so much more in the ninja world. If you go back and read the pein fight look at the stream of conscience going on. Its Pein counting down the seconds he needs at that crucial moment, not naruto. Naruto is just hammering him with everything he's got regardless. In my eyes with a fighting style like that he may surpass Jiraiya and Minato in terms of reputation but he'll never surpass them with regard to their skill and ingenuity as ninjas...at least not at the rate he's going

If Rasengan was truly an easy technique, then why don't more skilled ninja use it? Naruto isn't the smartest, but if you look at the before shippuuden and the current. He has definitely grown and will continue to grow and learn. The difference between the beginning of shippuuden and the present will show the same. It's not just the Rasengan, but the variations and tactics he uses them that makes him great and win. He took out the dam Nine Tails for crying out loud. Kakashi has admitted that Naruto surpassed him a long time ago. unless of course you are saying Kakashi isn't a good Ninja either.

well

everyone has their own opinion, that's just the way things are, it's interesting cause it's another point of view, and there are some things i agree with too

at least i guess we can all agree on the fact we all enjoy watching Naruto, the anime

I wonder how long until this thread gets renamed "Bleach, Naruto, and One Piece"
not arguing on the point of naruto being great or not. opinion is an opinion, don't try to change mine and i won't change yours.

when @op feels like asking a mod for it

he wasn't trying to change your opinion, he was giving his

I know, I was referring to posts after that post that do lol. Everyone is entitled to their own.

for the record he was losing to the 9 tails and probably would've lost had his mom not stepped in.

He doesn't change his tactics. Every fight its the same thing. Shadow clones and rasengan. Shadow clones...rasengan. Shadow clones....rasengan. His tactic is to overwhelm his opponent with shadow clones and then hit them with the rasengan while they're distracted. Him taking out the 9 tails doesn't make any sense. Granted he had his mom helping him but this is a creature that Minato, the guy who invented the rasengan, the Yellow Flash, the 4th hokage, one of the leafs greatest ninjas...not even he could kill the 9 tails without sacrificing himself. All naruto did was clones and rasengan. I honestly cannot fathom how that's ok with you. It means that with all minato's skill, knowledge, and mastery of being a ninja meant nothing because in order to beat the 9 tails all you need is to just wail on him with enough rasengans. You just read it and go "Naruto is so strong!" completely ignoring the illogical nature of the situation. It would be like if Ichigo just 1 shotted current Aizen with his new Getsuga Tenshou. Would you go "wow ichigo is so strong now!" or would you go "wait a minute, going with the power and skill standards set up prior to this encounter this outcome makes no sense at all"

At that point the main character is not an underdog. If they're not the underdog then there's no drama to the story. If there's no drama to the story then every villain is pointless and every accomplishment is meaningless. You can't possibly appreciate the art of story telling if you're ok with there being no real tension at all. I can't really take anything you say seriously because you keep trying to validate obvious flaws in the narrative. You don't even see these flaws as a problem you just seem excited to watch naruto rain rasengans down on his next enemy which admittedly is pretty cool but doesn't really make sense when you think about. That's ok really, sometimes i like watching a movie with alot of explosions just because i like explosions, its entertaining even if its not fulfilling story-wise and character-wise. But you don't stop there though. You then make poor attempts to try and explain away these obvious plotholes

and then i picture you with this look on your face like, HA i sure showed him.

And then i read it and go

Wow... your such a f*cking idiot.. makes me lol hard
You HAVE to be right... Your opinion is your opinion. It holds no fact. Yea his mom did so much by telling him exactly what to do. ^_- I don't care how technical your diarrhea sounds.. it's not gonna make me change the fact that my opinion differs from yours.. I think Naruto is a mutha fukkin beast of a Ninja. I'm not gonna pick apart an anime to make it sound like he's a failure as a ninja and sucks.. Why? Because your opinion is not my opinion. so boo hoo. Go cry to daddy.

oh and fyi, I didn't read any of your amazingly well thought paragraphs. I just keep seeing the same thing over and over again. A critic that can't simply enjoy something for what it is and has to make it sound like everyone should follow suit.

this

nah you read it...you made a response to it in your 2nd sentence

but

Just lol at the posts I've missed

OT:

am a bit late in response, but eh ..

both of you had valid points

as Xemnas said, there is a high degree of repetition due to Naruto's limited number of skills and his desire to express his objective ever so often
(causing many spoilerman moments to happen)

BlackDragon is right that he tries to use the skills he can in different ways, but still.. it's the same skill.
then again he is young and can develop, which he does even if it is slow)



anime stays anime

Skimmed. A fancy technique used to get the main points, but ignore the useless crap. Technical enough for you? Maybe you have some critique left for me.
Oh and Not mad, Amused (Hint: the lol) incase you missed it.

See right there it's ok, anyone could've skipped over the very first sentence.

whats a kage bunshin?

what do you mean by the shippu- part?

kage bunshin = shadow clone

made a mistake on the spelling, but shippuu- is part of shippuuden, which means hurricane chronicles, more or less

shippuu = hurricane .....which I was kinda drawing towards the whole element thing

wind (high speeds) + water = hurricane ....meh

o gotcha.. lulz

That would be something else considering how intense his Wind Rasengan already is. I just hope they don't go through yet another "training" for that. His training's are all the same in the way that "Shadow clones will make this go faster" but it actually takes up 10 chapters.

And Xemn, please bring me more lulz. I find it hilarious that you've lost this argument and have to resort to trying to extend your shrunken e peen. Just cause you can't argue an opinion. Out of everyone here, yours was the least interesting to begin with lol

In all seriousness you're one of the dumbest posters i've seen in a long time. Going "Naruto is cool IDC what you say" doesn't refute the inconsistencies in the story. You bitched that that I'm being over critical of the story, moan that im just repeating myself, and cry that im trying to shove my idea down your throat.

What opinions i had i clearly expressed as opinions and what factual inconsistencies i brought up you ignored in favor of going "Naruto is great no matter what you say blahblahblah im not listening!" This isn't an argument, it was a discussion and icecrash was able to keep it relatively civil but your stupidity and juvenile attitude to the topic brought it down to an entirely new level of low.

Now go ahead and brag how you didn't read this and naruto is a mUTheR FreAkin BEAST! Just put your hands over your ears and continue to not actually address any issue that was raised because you know what, you are the real winner here...

BELIEVE IT!

you know

the post that lead blackdragon to insult xem was a normal post to me, i can't understand how some people said they thought the same as blackdragon. I was impressed cause i thought xemn would try to show his stuff up my ass, but he didn't, he discussed it very openly i was very glad cause i enjoy good logic discussions, nothing better, the only reason i didn't post right after xem was because i wanted black to post first, so it'd be easy for me to butt in the discussion and say something valuable in a short post, but this just has gone too far now xD

Come on guys, i think xemn has admitted that we're right, even tho he did it in a very smooth way, but he isn't wrong either, and he shows that, so why don't we just say "aight that's cool" and move on?

I expressed my opinion, which you then attacked it.
You said the same thing over and over. Picking it apart rather than just enjoying it. Naruto's fights are usually interesting even without super technical 10 syllable techniques. He does lack skill in some areas, but he equalizes that with his resolve and will to never give up. I didn't say anything about inconsistencies.. There's a shit load no matter what anime you read, guess what? that's anime.....

Oh and and I think

That's not manga. I can count the inconsistencies in One Piece on my fingers. I can do the same for Shaman King. I can do the same for Death Note (though i wouldn't cause that was boring as ****), I can do the same for FMA. I can do the same for Berserk.

Not all manga is poorly written, filled with plot-holes, and consistently inconsistent when dealing with the limits/boundaries of its own universe.



Finally, had you just said that some post back we wouldn't even be here and i could've saved my breath. "Yeah there are alot of inconsistencies and shit that doesn't make sense but i don't care" i would've been fine with that. I already said i was fine with that. I'm repeating myself again like i have been doing because you seem to skim through everything i write and then make poor responses to what you can address while ignoring the rest and then wonder why this has devolved into a series of personal attacks.

If you were not interested in discussing the inconsistencies then why did you spend the last page trying to explain them away. This argument has been me trying to take a logical stand against issues that you don't even care are logically unsound. It's like pointing out flaws in the Bible to a Christian. They don't want to hear it even its true and they don't have a real response because they can't, it's impossible. Instead they'll just keep prattling on about how the bible is great and leading you in circle logic (God is real because the bible tells me, The bible is the truth because God is real) Any sane person would be royal pissed, I'm actually just extremely annoyed.

And lastly its not a bad thing to analyze your manga. That's what good readers do. The readers who pick up on everything, all the little easter eggs, all the little references, and even all the plot holes...those are the most dedicated readers. I'm not a fan of naruto but i once was and occasionally kishimoto will write something that reminds me of the potential the manga displayed in Part One so i keep reading it for whatever foolish reason. Still, attacking me for thinking too much just makes you sound like someone who doesn't like thinking too much. Understandably there is a time and a place for it but i give all my manga the same hard stare i give naruto, like i said i can count the flaws. There's no reason why i should have to shut my brain off just to enjoy a certain shonen manga when i don't have to do the same for its peers.

I wasn't explaining the inconsistencies, I was expressing the fact that I think Naruto is a good Ninja even without the technical knowledge of his peers. Even though he can use barely any strong Jutsu besides Rasengan variations, it's his ability to win with those that makes me ok with it. I would like it if he could learn something else without them taking 10 chapters for him to do it, but Naruto is Naruto. Goofy Ninja that somehow manages to be on top while kinda making sense as to how he does it at the same time. I agree on the fact that Naruto learning Sage Mode was a little odd considering he had to use a balloon to teach him how to move the chakra to form Rasengan. Maybe the author assumed it would go smooth without explaining and let ppl come up with their own reason. Although he used the frog oil to get the grasp of it just like the water balloon taught him how to grasp the Rasengan. Could have somethign to do with it.
And finally we have some maturity in our conversation, pleased to hear it. I was being a douche, not afraid to admit that.