The Netherlands: the place where we kill our elderly

woutR · **Posted:** Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:39 am

Vote Republican yo!

Some interesting new facts about the Netherlands:
- 10% of all deaths through euthanizing
- HALF of this dies of "involuntary euthanizing"
- Our elderly our now wearing tags that say "Please don't euthanize me"
- Our elderly are now fleeing to other countries' hospitals because they are afraid their own will kill them

No wonder we smoke... :roll:

Health care reform will take you straight to hell brothers.

(I can't seem to find the raw original video though)

heroo · **Joined:** Sep 2006 **Posts:** 6618 **Location:**

Quote:

Brian:
I dream of Republican Town,
Where men to the right of the aisle don't back down.
The streets are aglow with the smell of apple pies
And babies come out of the womb in coats and ties.
Nice place, huh, Rush?

Rush Limbaugh:
It's a paradise, Brian.
Trees grow from Republican sod.
And everyone prays to a proper right-wing God.

Lois:
Republican Catholics?

Brian:
Yes, indeed, there are!

Lois:
Republican Muslims?

Brian:
Now, let's not go too far.

Lois:
No Muslims?

Rush Limbaugh:
Eh, too many tall buildings.

Brian:
They've outlawed all abortions,
Late or early.
It's a sin we can't abide.

Lois:
What if you find a fetus
Left abandoned?

Rush Limbaugh:
We just take it
And we jam it back inside.

Brian:
Aw, yes, 'cause I dream of Republican Town,
The place where the happiest smile is Cheney's frown.
I'll bet you a buck you won't find a damn thing wrong
'Cause when you come down to it,
This is where we all belong.

Lois:
Who else lives here?

Brian:
Oh, big names, Lois.
We're watching Republican stars...

Rush Limbaugh:
Like sweet Mickey Rourke, and his gorgeous right-wing scars.

Brian:
Chuck Norris is one...

Rush Limbaugh:
And he's got a right-wing beard.

Brian:
Jon Voight is another...

Rush Limbaugh:
He's just right-wing weird.

Brian:
His, uh, his daughter's pretty hot, though.

Rush Limbaugh:
At one time, Brian. At one time.

Lois:
But how 'bout global warming?

Brian:
It's a snow job
By Obama and his crew.

Lois:
But aren't all his findings
Backed by science?

Rush Limbaugh:
Careful, Lois,
Now you're sounding like a Jew!

Brian:
Oy!
We dream of Republican Town,
Where Clinton is viewed as a crazy Commie clown.

Rush Limbaugh:
A place where America's growing free and strong.

Brian:
'Cause when you come down to it,
This is where...
We...
All...
Belong!

cin · **Joined:** Jan 2012 **Posts:** 296 **Location:** ...

woutR wrote:

- We euthanize 10% of the elderly

Lol he actually said 10% of all deaths..

"But half the people who are euthanized every year
-- and it's 10% of all deaths in the Netherlands..."

:palm:

woutR · **Posted:** Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:52 am

ah yeah right, sorry I couldn't grasp so much stupidity.

TheDrop · **Joined:** May 2008 **Posts:** 7150 **Location:** uefa2012

Its funny looking at assjuice talk and "inform" people as if he has any idea what he is talking about but just sad to see the ppl in the audience believe it like gospel (hehe)

inky · **Joined:** Nov 2006 **Posts:** 4025 **Location:**

It's pretty stupid how we leave decisions regarding matters like healthcare protocol, internet censorship, and same-sex marriage to people who know close to nothing about it. It even gets more...interesting when people start promoting their expertise on these various subjects based on outdated, conservative, (and often) Bible-based claims. The Republicans even demonize the word "secular" as if it was a bad thing to stop being a narrow-minded imbecile like Santorum.

takolin · **Joined:** Jan 2007 **Posts:** 4238 **Location:** Life

I feel sorry for your candidates.

Millenium · **Joined:** Oct 2006 **Posts:** 2732 **Location:** Waterloo

lol sources for stats? :palm:

Blindfire · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 3844 **Location:** ...

Millenium wrote:

lol sources for stats? :palm:

Rick Santorum doesn't need sources, or facts. People will vote for him anyway.

inky · **Joined:** Nov 2006 **Posts:** 4025 **Location:**

Just keep playing the I-love-Jesus, God-loves-America, and God-hates-abortion-fags-Muslims-Mexicans-atheists-liberals card.

Fiction · **Posted:** Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:46 pm

Santorum is just an example of what's wrong with this current republican and maybe even democrat party... The federal government has no business in setting the moral standards. For some reason they think it's their right, and we at citizens allow them to believe it. Santorum belongs on the left rather than the right on the spectrum, just as Hitler was more left than right.

Ron Paul is about the closest thing we have to what America should be, and half the morons voting in the debates don't even listen to his message..

*BlackFox · **Joined:** Sep 2008 **Posts:** 7923 **Location:**

woutR wrote:

- Our elderly our now wearing tags that say "Please don't euthanize me"
- Our elderly are now fleeing to other countries' hospitals because they are afraid their own will kill them

Holy shit... Is that for real?

woutR · **Posted:** Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:30 am

No all claims are false. Watch the video to see what's true and what's not. I can assure you no one is being killed against their will. (People are still 'killed' voluntarily, the Netherlands has legalized euthanasia.)

*BlackFox · **Joined:** Sep 2008 **Posts:** 7923 **Location:**

woutR wrote:

I can assure you no one is being killed against their will. (People are still 'killed' voluntarily, the Netherlands has legalized euthanasia.)

Well, but.. "Euthanasia legislation" can never be made safe from misuse and abuse. Don't ya think?

TheDrop · **Joined:** May 2008 **Posts:** 7150 **Location:** uefa2012

Fiction wrote:

Santorum is just an example of what's wrong with this current republican and maybe even democrat party... The federal government has no business in setting the moral standards. For some reason they think it's their right, and we at citizens allow them to believe it. Santorum belongs on the left rather than the right on the spectrum, just as Hitler was more left than right.

Ron Paul is about the closest thing we have to what America should be, and half the morons voting in the debates don't even listen to his message..

Exactly!!
I really don't understand the people who are all like "govt is evil!!!" when it comes to healthcare, but then trust the gov't when its on abortion (the government forcing on womens what they can or cannot do), religion in science (just retarded), and ofc, war with every nation on earth (gov't wasting tax dollars + lives). Also bailouts (which i dont understand why anyone from a mid-income family working hard would ever support?)

And really, this is the whole republican party candidates (such as santorum, palin, gringich, that chick that i can't remember, etc. The only reasonable ones in the republican candidacy was Huntsman & Paul, and they were thought to be the "un-Republican" candidates :palm:

marijnz0r · **Posted:** Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:14 am

*BlackFox wrote:

woutR wrote:

I can assure you no one is being killed against their will. (People are still 'killed' voluntarily, the Netherlands has legalized euthanasia.)

Well, but.. "Euthanasia legislation" can never be made safe from misuse and abuse. Don't ya think?

guns... same story.

Love · **Joined:** Nov 2007 **Posts:** 5336 **Location:**

Fiction wrote:

Santorum is just an example of what's wrong with this current republican and maybe even democrat party... The federal government has no business in setting the moral standards. For some reason they think it's their right, and we at citizens allow them to believe it. Santorum belongs on the left rather than the right on the spectrum, just as Hitler was more left than right.

Ron Paul is about the closest thing we have to what America should be, and half the morons voting in the debates don't even listen to his message..

lolololololololololol

You confuse real life with fiction.

woutR · **Posted:** Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:26 am

*BlackFox wrote:

woutR wrote:

I can assure you no one is being killed against their will. (People are still 'killed' voluntarily, the Netherlands has legalized euthanasia.)

Well, but.. "Euthanasia legislation" can never be made safe from misuse and abuse. Don't ya think?

Almost nothing is fail proof. However, contrary to what Santorum would have you believe we do not give out euthanasia as if it's a hamburger in the McDonalds. There are very strict rules about how to legally end one's life, and the rules leave no room for abuse. You have to request euthanasia, then your case will be reviewed and only after that will you receive it. This is NOT a simple procedure, and the request for euthanasia is often declined as well. The procedure is extremely hard to bypass, making 'euthanizing' all of the elderly for budget reasons impossible and illegal.
As far as I know there is no example of someone being euthanized against their will. That is to say: someone being killed by a doctor who faked a euthanasia request.
I feel that our euthanasia law is safe from misuse and abuse.

Fiction · **Posted:** Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:46 pm

Love wrote:

lolololololololololol

You confuse real life with fiction.

Based off your retarded comments in almost every thread talking about conspiracy, religion, politics, or anything involving an animal getting hurt; you seem to be the one that confuses reality and fiction.

Santorum loves to exploit people's fears to gain power, just like most politicians. I don't really have a stance on euthanasia, but I don't think there should be any federal laws in America stating if it's legal or not. The states are the ones that should be deciding most of the laws that now days are made by the federal government. In this case, if you disagree with that law, just move to a state you agree with. (reason why I don't live in Cali)

@TheDrop

Spoiler!

Love · **Joined:** Nov 2007 **Posts:** 5336 **Location:**

^

I don't remember the last time I read anything smart from you and here you are again presenting political parties as if there were any sort of functioning structure aimed towards working on their stated purpose.

woutR · **Posted:** Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:25 pm

@Fiction: "The government shouldn't be involved in healthcare"... why not? What is the government supposed to do if not to secure proper education and health care for everyone? I think it's a government's main purpose to provide a safe environment for its inhabitants. How will a government do that if it is not involved in health care?

And let's not call each other retarded in my thread.

heroo · **Joined:** Sep 2006 **Posts:** 6618 **Location:**

Health care is of life essence. It is one of the few things I would like the government to take care of, just like electricity, water and gas.

I am very glad Holland is taking care of it's people's health and I am very mad at our current government for destroying our healthcare system bit by bit.

And I can not believe these kind of people can actually become presidential candidates and actually get quite some votes. I never understood how things like these can occur in the U.S.? Is it due the lack of edcuation? Are people in U.S. easy to persuade? I don't get it, honestly. How can someone say clearly untrue things like this and still remain credible? Would someone care to explain?

Fiction · **Posted:** Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:50 pm

woutR wrote:

@Fiction: "The government shouldn't be involved in healthcare"... why not? What is the government supposed to do if not to secure proper education and health care for everyone? I think it's a government's main purpose to provide a safe environment for its inhabitants. How will a government do that if it is not involved in health care?

And let's not call each other retarded in my thread.

@woutR

Spoiler!

@Love

Spoiler!

woutR · **Posted:** Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:41 pm

Just because I believe in affordable health care for everyone doesn't mean I am a socialist, nor does government involvement mean the elimination of the free market system.
Socialism also does not equal communism like it seems you believe. Norway is a very socialistic country and they have the highest living standard in the world. Now, imagine this: it's both a socialist country AND the richest country in the world by means of GDP per capita. Not bad for a "government [that] kills competition, growth, freedom of choice, and begins to tell you what you can and can't do", eh?
Why would it be a socialist thing to expand the accessibility of health care by the way? Isn't it the humane thing to do?
In your post you say the current system is "half way to FAIL". What is different now when comparing to before the 60s when the government started its "socialist agenda"? How does health care reform threaten the free market?
In the Netherlands we arguably have what Obama is trying to reform to: affordable health care for everyone. This hasn't killed the free market at all. Insurance agencies still battle each other for customers, hospitals try to be the best in order to generate the most revenue and our health care quality is excellent. Should you not agree with this you are still free to go to a privatized hospital or even another country. (This by no means means that health care reform leads to you running off to another country for your health care btw. I'm just saying we're still free to do as we please 'despite' socialist health care.)

I would write more but it'll be tl;dr and I'm curious what you think.

Love · **Joined:** Nov 2007 **Posts:** 5336 **Location:**

Lol yeah let me have any sort of discussion with some idiot that calls names, provides no argument, and declares victory.

Closing argument: Calling you retarded would be a kindness, watching you delude yourself into thinking you have any sort of intellect ? bit entertaining ( for about a heartbeat or two ... ).

heroo · **Joined:** Sep 2006 **Posts:** 6618 **Location:**

None of the political systems we have is good. There is just bad, worse and worst. We just choose the system of which we believe is the least bad of all. Capitalism is from this point of view the best system we can go with. However it does have alot of errors, because capitalism is built on the believe that you'll have economic growth for an infinite period of time. The recent crisis has showed us that it doesn't always have to be like that and it turns out we need the government to jump in after all. We keep bailing banks out with BILLIONS of dollars but refuse to let the government to help build a secure and good healthcare system for all its citizens.

@ Fiction

What do you think about a combination of capitalism and socialism? I prefer a country which is as much capitalistic as possible but with a government that takes care of the most important things like for example healthcare. It's better to take the best of two systems rather then to depend on only one system.

TheDrop · **Joined:** May 2008 **Posts:** 7150 **Location:** uefa2012

Unregulated capitalism leads to child labor, barely any wages, tenement life, long work hours, no insurance, etc. This is what i see from the Industrialization (in England and then US till Roosevelt led as a progressive), and then the Gilded Age (which led to great depression). The majority of people live in deep poverty while a few prosper. radicalization would never work. Also the US economy atm is more of a Mixed market than a free market economy

Also, the republican electorate/party just doesnt make sense..They follow the "moral highground" against abortion etc, but then they want death penalty (which i'd support depending), boo at a US soldier serving in Iraq who happens to be gay, and cheer when it comes to letting uninsured people die. just :palm:

In terms of healthcare, if a patient comes to a hospital with a terminal disease emergency, but has no health care, the hospital still take them in and treat them (some kind of oath?). This leads to hospitals losing a shitload of money with treatment, leads to the patient with a shitload of debt (that they have no way of paying). So who exactly loses in this scenario? both the hospitals (& doctors) and the patients. Soooo yeah. Lose-Lose situation ftw?

Fiction · **Posted:** Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:36 am

@woutR

I understand where you're coming from, but you're speaking of a nation that is far from what America is, in economy, culture and size. Just because I don't believe the Federal Government shouldn't be in the business of healthcare doesn't mean I want people to die in the streets or lose their home to take care of an illness. I don't have a problem with medical insurance, I just think that the states should have the say in how it's regulated.

I cannot say how your government represents it's population, but as for ours, I believe they have something like 8% approval rate or something around there. They do not care about what's best for our country, they're in for the money and power. So the deeper they get into the healthcare system, the worse it becomes for every American. If your system works for you, great, but it is my belief that it would not work for us.

I believe socialism is legal plunder from one class to another.

@heroo

I would be for a combination of the two (and of course the government has to regulate certain aspects of the economy in any system or you get monopolies) but in most cases you get nothing but corrupt governments turning the system to work for them.

*BlackFox · **Joined:** Sep 2008 **Posts:** 7923 **Location:**

Fiction wrote:

they're in for the money and power

Yeah, that's quite right. Health Care shouldn’t be a business about money "but about care".
Fortunately.. there is no guarantee that care will be there when it's needed anyway!

McLovin1t · **Joined:** Apr 2008 **Posts:** 1825 **Location:**

Ron Paul is a monster, Rick Santorum belongs as FAR RIGHT AS you can get, Fiction the logic you use just demonstrates the double standard of the right: "Big government is bad, but let's say who can/can't marry, who can/can't get abortions, etc."
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/01/04 ... -for-paul/

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