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Now, normally I don't post things this personal about myself on this Forum, but I'd just like to get the advice of you nice people here. My friends would probably laugh at me, anyways.
This might be long, so... if you're bored. Help me out.

[Edit:]
If it's too long, scroll down to the bottom of this post and read Shadow's summary. Thanks, Shadow.

There's this girl that I've been with for around 2 months now. Well, we're not together now. But that's for later.
At the beginning, I used to know her when I was in 4th grade. We went to the same daycare. And until now, I haven't seen her since. I was in 5th grade at the time, so I'm one year older than her.
I bumped into her at the library one day. She immediately caught my eye as soon as she walked in, because I just thought that I recognized her from somewhere. And she was pretty as well. She stopped over to this guy, and talked to him from a bit, and the guy I knew from school - was a big nerd. So I went over to him, and I asked him - "What's that girl's name?" And he said, "Sophia," right as I said it too. Because I knew it was her.
So I went up to her, and we talked for a bit, and ended up going to Baskin Robbins together. She had to leave really quick, because she had Dance class at 8:00, and her Dad was getting mad at her. But before she left, she gave me her phone number. And I just stared at it.
When I got back home, I called up my friend and asked him about it. He was shocked for a few seconds, and started to ask me questions about her - was she skinny? Did she take dance classes?
Turned out that he knew her, and the strange thing was, she was going out / in a relationship with the boy that she first talked to when she walked into the library. But I couldn't even tell one bit. When I asked the boy (Daniel), if he wanted to go to Baskin Robbins with us, he was just like, "No," and kept staring at his screen, without even looking up.

I talked to her later, and it turned out that she was already going to break up with him. She just didn't know how to / didn't want to do it.

Things progressed nicely. I asked her out one day, and she said yes, of course - I knew she was into me, and I was into her as well. Our relationship soared, and I think that I can honestly say that I fell in love with her, for the first time in my life, extremely fast. Love at first sight? No. But very close to that.

But then, summer came, and I had to start working with my parents. Had to go to Trade Shows, like the Dallas F!NDS Temp Show that just finished this Tuesday, and they lasted for around a week at a time, and my time with her was extremely limited. I couldn't spend time with her - couldn't find a way to do it. Her parents didn't know about me, and if they did, they would've killed her, so I could've exactly taken her on a date at night.
So she started going to the Recreational Center about 10 minutes away from her house. "Good," I thought at first - atleast she won't be bored for the rest of the day.
But one day she brought up the topic of this one guy. His name was Justin. Turns out that he goes to my school, and is in my grade, but I've never, ever, ever, in my life, seen him before. None of my friends know him either. That day, she had ridden his bike home, and she mentioned it to me. I wasn't worried or anything. Just interested.

And then she started to talk more about him. Not really, but I began to get worried, because one of our mutual friends brought up that he was always there at the Rec. And one day, when I was over at her house, they were talking on AIM, and I was reading their convo. He was flirting with her SO bad, and SO blatantly. But she was just typing, "lol xD" and stuff like that. And it just really started to worry me. I knew nothing about the guy, but the way that Sophia talked about him... just made me worry a little. They were talking about how muscles and how they were getting "harder and squarer"... retarded stuff like that, and he was saying, "No, you were SUCH a good guard that day we played basketball. I don't think there's anybody there better than you." And then she would reply and be like, "No, lol, you were."

One day, I asked her about it. She assured me that nothing was going on between them. They were just friends. But the days went on, and the more and more I began to worry, because she was spending every single day at the Rec, now. Everyday that I was gone, she was at the Rec.

One time when I was with her, she was like, "I'm bored. Let's go to the Rec." And I disagreed. Didn't want to go. Just wanted to spend some quality time alone with her. But she really, REALLY wanted to go to the Rec. So, after a while, I agreed, and she looked really, REALLY happy about it. But right before we left, I had to leave. Something urgent popped up, and there was nothing I could do about it. But before I left, I was like, "Go to the Rec and have fun, alright?" And she was like, "No. The only reason why I wanted to go was because I wanted to go with you. So I'm not going today." And I felt really bad for being so selfish, and I told her to please go, but she was adamant and told me that she wasn't going.
Later, I asked her, and she told me that she had went to the Rec... just... felt really empty. And I started to think of it as a TINY, TINY lie. And I started to wonder if she ever lied to me.

So I worried about Justin the entire time.

A week later, her dad had to go to California to attend her brother's graduation from Stanford. So he sent her to her friend, Janet's house, for 2 days. Saturday, and Sunday. And I asked her if she could go to the movies, and at first, we planned to, but then she called me back and told me that she couldn't go. I asked her why, and she told me that Janet wanted to go to the Mall. So I agreed.
Two hours later, she called me back and told me that she had to go to a dinner party with Janet, so she couldn't go to the Mall. I was kinda sad, but you know? What can you do. So I said, alright. I asked her if she could go tomorrow, but she had to go to the Zoo with Janet's sister, Rachel.

The next day, I talked to her best friend. This is what happened:

[21:00] redphoenixexe: awwwww!
[21:00] aicilah999: and yesterday we hung out
[21:00] aicilah999: for 8 hrs
[21:00] redphoenixexe: I wanted to go to the movies with Sophia. but she couldn't.
[21:00] aicilah999: i've been really happy
[21:00] aicilah999:
[21:00] aicilah999: why?
[21:00] redphoenixexe: >:[
[21:00] redphoenixexe: at Janet's place.
[21:00] aicilah999: oh yeah
[21:00] aicilah999: she went to the mALL
[21:00] redphoenixexe: had to go to some dinner last night... and had to go to the zoo today.
[21:00] aicilah999: WITHOTU USS
[21:00] aicilah999: =O.
[21:00] redphoenixexe: who?
[21:00] redphoenixexe: Sophia?
[21:00] aicilah999: ohh how was the zoo?
[21:00] aicilah999: yeah
[21:00] redphoenixexe: when'd she go to the mall?
[21:00] aicilah999: yesterday
[21:00] aicilah999: w/ janet
[21:01] redphoenixexe: really?
[21:01] aicilah999: cuz janet was like
[21:01] aicilah999: dont invite jonathan
[21:01] aicilah999: oops
[21:01] aicilah999: idk
[21:01] redphoenixexe: do me a favor, okay?
[21:01] aicilah999: if i was supposed to tell you.
[21:01] aicilah999: ok
[21:01] redphoenixexe: don't tell Sophia that you told me.
[21:01] redphoenixexe: I'm serious. don't say anything.
[21:01] aicilah999: told you what?
[21:01] redphoenixexe: haha, good.
[21:01] redphoenixexe: why'd she tell her not to invite me, though?

So she lied to me. And the more I thought about it, the more I think that she's been lying to me - all her stories are inconsistent.

[21:02] redphoenixexe: so Sophia lied to me yesterday.
[21:02] aicilah999: what'd she say?
[21:02] redphoenixexe: seemed flawless. now how do I know when she's lying, and when she's not?
[21:02] aicilah999: dude
[21:02] aicilah999: she's really good at lying
[21:02] aicilah999: i think she lies to me all the time
[21:02] aicilah999: cuz her lies
[21:03] aicilah999: arent very consistent
[21:03] redphoenixexe: Sophia told me that she had to go to a family dinner last night.

Seriously, when your best friend rags on you, there's something wrong. So I just started wondering... you know? Like I said. Who wouldn't. How often does she lie to me? And she's such a good liar... how do I know when she's even lying to me? And it just kept gnawing at me. So I ignored her. Just wanted to sort out my own feelings before I talked to her. I told her friend to tell her to leave me alone, and that I don't want to talk to her until sometime later.
That's when the Dallas F!NDS Temp Show came up... June 20th - June 26th, and I was way too busy that entire week to talk to her. But my friend was talking to her the entire time, and she had told my friend that she had spent the past few nights awake, feeling really bad, not sleeping at all. And last friday, Alicia, her best friend, sent me a text message. Said that I NEEDED to talk to her, even though I was busy, because it was our 2-month. So I was right about to give her a call, when I got on AIM, and lying there was a message from Josh, a guy that was always at the Rec together with them:

[22:01] isuxusux: [Offline IM sent 10h and 48m ago] hey
[22:01] isuxusux: [Offline IM sent 10h and 47m ago] smileveryday3935: i want justin to sign on
[22:01] isuxusux: [Offline IM sent 10h and 47m ago] smileveryday3935: cuz he usually sings on then we talk then he goes to the rec and then i might go then we go home at around 6 then he signs on around 7ish
[22:01] isuxusux: [Offline IM sent 10h and 47m ago] your gf is flirting with someone

And I checked my EMail, and one of my other friends had sent me an email telling me that they had been flirting. I asked around a little before I made any assumptions, and it turned out that she had been going to the Rec that entire week.
Well, WTF. Certainly not something to do, go to the Rec and party, when you're as depressed as you say you are, and "haven't slept for 2 days." Seriously. Could you not sleep for 2 days, walk a mile to the Rec, play basketball for 3 hours, and walk a mile back? **** that shit! Ridiculous. So I just sent her an e-mail. Dumped her, broke up with her, ended our relationship, whatever you want to call it, right there and then:

I'm done with you, Sophia. You like Justin, I Farking get it. You have no Farking idea how much I LOVED you. You have NO IDEA. I was so scared at first to get into another relationship because I was afraid of getting hurt. THANK YOU for hurting me. Like Alicia said, you told Justin that you liked him. Okay. Fine. Read the conversation with Alicia. Just confirms it. I can't believe you threw all we had away for some boy who spends his days at the Rec - no responsibility, no pride, no nothing. A guy that flirts with someone else's girlfriend? You could POSSIBLY like a guy like that? I mean, WTF, Sophia? Yes, I don't have as much time for you as he does, Sophia, but atleast I have integrity, and have enough responsibility to be able to take on a job, and find time for you. Atleast I don't go around behind your back and flirt with a hundred different girls and then lie to you and say that I've been completely, 100% loyal. You have no idea how many fights I got with into my parents over getting a day off just to spend with you. And then the trouble I would get in. We were supposed to be forever. We were special. You threw that away. Go out with Justin, lol. I'm done with you, I'm washing my hands of you and any other girls for a long, long, long time. Thank you for all that you've done for me. To me. Whatever, who cares anymore? As far as I'm concerned, you never existed to me. I don't need you, I don't need a girl like you. I have work to do. Goodbye, and good riddance, Jezus Christ.
BTW, you don't deserve me to break up with you in person. So this e-mail should suffice. And no, we didn't make 4-weeks, since I'm breaking up with you today. Stopped short of a month. Ouch. Go and cry, now, okay? Or laugh and then ask Justin out, and then come back and lie to me and tell me how much you've been crying. Or, don't do that at all, because I'm through.
Oh, yeah, and I love you. lol...

That was the email I sent her, along with the Convos, and my evidence. Some stuff I'm just not putting in, because it's too personal.
And I thought I was through with her. Finished. But I just couldn't get it out of my damn head, you know?
So I asked Alicia for Justin's phone number, and wanted to yell at him for a bit. I called him up, and I hated him from his first words, "Sup, man!" An Asian kid that tries to act gangster, when he'd get clobbered in two seconds if he hung around with any of my friends. "Peace out, man." Tries to use all these big words.

Me: Dude, what the **** is your problem? You think that it's cool, you're such a cool guy to flirt with my girlfriend?
Him: You know. That is a very good question.

Hated him. After that, I was just feeling so down. Gave her a call, and wanted some answers. Just wanted SOMETHING, FFS. How could she DO this to me? Lousy, cheating... (fill in the expletives for yourself).

FFS, she was all defensive at first, while I was angry with her. But after I calmed down a bit, we had a heart-to-heart chat, I think. No matter how gay that sounds.
Started out by telling her that she had changed, from the girl that I first knew. She had changed so much. This wasn't the girl I fell in love with. I reminded her of all the promises that we had made each other, and I think she started to cry. Who knows? She might have been fake-crying, lol...

This is getting really long. So long story short, she promised me that she'd change, if I'd take her back. I promised her that I'd wait for her to change, wait for her to change back to who she was, and then I'd take her back in a heartbeat, no questions asked.
She threw in that she never liked Justin, and that she didn't. I don't believe her for one second.



Long, huh?
What do you guys think? Your opinions? Should I ditch this liar, cheating whore, or should I wait for her? If you have any more specific questions, please, ask. I really need this advice.
And above all, no flames, please. Not what I need right now...
I love her. I still do. Is this girl worth waiting for? She used to be amazing - she was sweet, but yet, she could be dirty. She was so fun to be around, not to mention that she was pretty, and was a dancer... just... confusing, I guess.

And yes, this is just the tiny, teeny-tiny condensed version. I think you guys can understand what I'm thinking, and what happened, because if I posted the entire thing, it'd be 5-6 times longer than this. Fill in the blanks - I gave you the main points. But like I said, if you have anything specific to ask, please do.

Thanks, guys. Special thanks to Cin. Best Mod ever.

tl;dr

>_>

I know. I said, only read it if you have time. Or you're a nice person who wants to help me.

What's DR?

tl;dr = Too Long; Didn't Read

It was sooooooooooo long I didn't read the whole thing, but I read the messaging and stuff.

Sooo... If you want to know if she likes you (that seems to be what most of these "girl advise" threads are about) then I'd say yeah, but she doesn't want a relation ship with you, because she's dating that one guy, and you can tell she doesn't want to be in a relationship with you because she lies to you and doesn't want to hang out with you sometimes, or whatever.

So, I hope I helped, perhaps I didn't though, considering I only read like 5% of the post.

ok. so im at work and i did find time to read the whole post.

to be honest, i know this type of girl. some of my friends are like that. they
have this look in their eyes and they have ways to make all guys kinda fall
in love with them, but yet they are just playing and they know it. it seems to
me that they dont really do that on purpose; its just the way they are, the
way they act.

this girl is a perfect example of it. and im sorry to tell you, but i think that if
you take her back, she will just try harder to not let you find out she is flirting
with others. from what i read, i also think you deserve a girl who is better than
that.

i bet a guy like you has friends, so my best advice to you is hang out or go
out with them. ive been in situations like this a couple of times, and this
type of girl seems to work fine for some purposes, but they arent made
for a real relationship. go out with friends and try to get your mind off from
her. once took me about 2 months to do that, but it opened my eyes and
made me see that the girl was actually just manipulating me and a whole
bunch of other dudes. im not falling for those tricks again, and i suggest
you dont do that either.

and people, fena asked me on pm to keep this topic clean, because it is
a quite personal matter. so please keep the flames or "cool" replies out
of this thread or they will be deleted. thnx.

+1


and this is my opinion on your sitiation! If she lied to you for almost a month,how do you know she wasnt lieing to you about changing? If it were me i would avoid her, avoid her friends. I dont want you to get dragged back into a relationship with her because i dont want to see you get hurt.


anyone calls me gay for the above statement dies

Whoo i read the whole thing. Thats probably the most ive read at once in a few years ^^, and yet i cant think of any advice or something intelligent to post . ill edit it later if i feel like saying sumtin

Thanks, Cin.
I don't know. The thing that's really bothering me is that she told me that she loved me. She promised that she loved me. She said that she wanted to be forever, cheesy as it sounds. Just... she was so real.
And the main thing that bothers me now, if I let go, is thinking about her with another guy, promising him the same things - especially a guy like Justin. I feel like, if I just say goodbye, then I'm letting that ****, Justin, win this one, and God knows that I'd never do that.
And the second thing is, I'm just wondering - how could she do this to me? After promising that she loved me, etc., etc., etc. All that. Just... don't know, man. Don't know.

But all the same. You know I you.



I know, man... but the thing is, she just sounded so damn real. She sounded like she was crying, and I think I believe her when she says that she's going to change.
But I just don't know what to believe anymore. She's such an amazing liar, man.

Theres plenty more fish in the sea. Theres no use waiting for someone to change, they never will. Sometimes you've got to know when to let go

one question fena.. how old are you two?

Don't laugh. Jonathan, Sophia. 15 and 14, respectively.
Ouch, now all the respect you may have had for me just went right down the drain.

no it didnt. its just that i now know how much faith i would put in the fact
that she said she loves you.

take my advice and hang around with friends, get her out of your mind. in
time you will see that she just used you.

edit: i gotta go eat lunch now. there better be only good replies when i get
back -_- xP

Could you elaborate? Thanks.

The thing is, I'm just one of those guys that takes all his relationships very seriously. I don't go out with a girl for a day, and then break up with her, just because I went out with her for fun. I'm just... you know? One of those guys that takes his relationships seriously, and I never say anything that I don't mean. If I loved her, I think that I did, and that I do...
But maybe I'm still, just too young.

Nevermind

Decided to get rid of it to protect my awesomeness.

Shadow's summary:


IMO:

She cheated once and seems to show remorse, and I think a second change should be given. However, if she cheats twice it's all your fault so keep track of her 'stories'. If she does it again, you should know the day she does it, and then, well you can do whatever you want, either drop her softly, or torture her for a while

P.S. Read the damn thing before posting, or at least read my summary. I HATE people who read a title, read four words and posts. (As I proved earlier lots of people do this)

Coming from a girl-

Dump that hoe.
Once a liar, always a liar.
It's better not to give a girl a chance if she does something like that to you. Just dont.
Some things should be forgiven- that about of bullshit is a little too overwhelming though.

I read shadow's thing, and that was a pretty good summary I guess, although I don't know 'cause I still haven't read the original story.

That's all I gotta say.

LOL.
Pretty good summary, actually. Accurate.
Cin should lock up Sophia and delete Justin. That seriously made me rofl. Thanks for making me laugh, haha.
And yes, little Asian guy trying to act black. I don't know what she sees in him - he's a spineless wannabe, who isn't man enough to admit that he's been flirting with Sophia to me, until I threatened him to blow a hole in his head.

Anybody else agree with Shadow, here? Or should I just ditch her like Ito said?



Finally, a girl! Thanks, Ito. She seemed really sincere about changing, though? Any thoughts about that?

lolz, tehr r no grlz on teh intarwebz!

if you cant belive her with your whole heart, then that means that there is part of you that dosent love her, you may have loved her whole heatredly to start with but the more you found out the less you loved her. I have been on bot ends of this deal(the guy that has been cheated on, and the guy that has cheated with the gilr on her b/f) its a bad situation so i suggest getting out of it 100%!

A tad bit inconsistent, eh?

Anyway, I ended up reading the whole thing.

Umm...advice?

I hated those days. When I was a teenager and really cared about every girl I was with. Such heartache and pain over some 15 yr old skeezer. ::sigh::

You broke a few rules there, kid.

• You trusted her. Don't trust'em as far as you can throw them. Until they prove their worth. You were with her for 1 (maybe 2) month(s) - that's nothing. You moved way too fast.
• You stayed with her despite her shady ass friend. Alicia snitched on Sophia (the going to the mall without you thing). If Alicia was a real friend she'd never snitch on Sophia and the fact that she did snitch shows no loyalty. So either, A) Sophia sucks at picking friends or B) Sophia knows she hangs around untrustworthy ppl. Either way, a person is defined byt he company they keep.
• YOU SENT THE EMAIL!!! Worst move EVER! Ok...OK...you'll bounce back (hopefully). We've all made that mistake - it's technology's fault, not your's (mostly). NEVER send the email. Talk on the phone if you don't want to see her, if you don't mind seeing her, then talk face-to-face. NEVER send the email. EVER! Emotions are to be spoken with the eyes, not the fingers.
• YOU CALLED THE OTHER GUY!?!?! Kid, you're mad at the wrong person! Despite popular belief, the guy did nothing wrong. End of story. But you did something wrong - you called him. Bad boy! BAD BOY!

With that said, you did at least one thing right. You got the upper hand in the end. The whole "if you clean up your act, i'll take you back" thing is good. Don't forget who has the upper hand!

Did you at least **** her?

Well... I met her on April 31st, and I kinda started to count that as the beginning, more or less. I asked her out finally on May 25th, but we've had already admitted to each other that we liked each like, two days after we met each other, lol... so, depends on how you count it. I didn't officially ask her out until the 25th, because I wanted to wait until a special moment... but, yeah. I'm not a liar like her. I just count it differently, sometimes, is all.


I didn't include that for a reason. I'm going to get flames and dumbass comments like, "Pics or it didn't happen," if I told you how far we went. Or people would just lose respect for me because they'd think that I was lying. So that's why I didn't include it.

About Alicia - she was confiding in me, at that time, actually. She was beginning to get really sick of Sophia, and her lies, and at that precise time, I had popped up and started talking to her about it. I think she just needed someone to confide in. She's the kind of girl that hangs out with lots of freshmen / sophomores that go to my school, although she's just in 7th grade herself. One year younger than Sophia, and two younger than me. Really mature for her age, however, and she's proven to be a good friend.

Thanks for the comment, Luv3r. So, should I just forget her? Tell her, atleast or something? Or just let it be?
I mean, she sounded SO sincere!

@ Exality... Very wise words... I'll have to think about that.

Once again, thanks, everyone. you all, and you know it.

1. I hate Asians that act black.
2. She won't change.
3. She dumped someone she dumped you for for you at the drop of a hat. Smells like control freak.
4. From what I can tell, you and your girlfriend are ~my age(14-17). You don't know what love is. Love is the word that you see thrown around in movie theatres. Love is what you tell your parents even if you hate them inside. Love is what you use to get things that people don't want to give you. **** love.

First loves are always fun...its weird how later on when yoru older and you look back on all these things you'll realize how much it wasn't a big deal and you'll have the perfect plan to solve. but this case is simple.

It sounds like she just waits along with a guy and picks up the next best guy that comes along. She sounded like she dumped her old boyfriend fairly eaisily and you have to wonder that if you hadn't found out about it, how long would she have kept lying to to. Chances are she would've kept it up for as long as possible. Your young (no offence) you've got SO much time to find someone better to spend your time with. That kind of high school love is a fleeting thing imo and few relationships are built to last. It doesn't even sound like you have time to handle a GF right now with all your work. I say leave her behind and ride it out until the next chick comes along, only this time make sure your in a position where you can give whoever the chick is, a little more attention. It seems like she realizes that relationships at her age are a dime a dozen and easy to walk away from....so should you.

Of course this is all coming from a cynical, pessimistic, misanthrope...doesn't sound like i qualify for relationship advice but at least ima realist, and i can predict my friends break ups as soon as they go out....


PS: You don't E-Mail, Text Message, or Blog break-up ever....its just lame

"A word only means what the person who uses it wants it to mean"

There's no global conception of love, my friend. For some people "love" is a simple word to say "i care about you" or even some people who use it in a lighter way "i think you are funny/cool/entertaining". The truth is that, when you hear "i love you" from someone else, the question is "what does that person think Love really is".

Maybe this girl just sees love as a tool. There are people so cold that do not believe in feelings, but in the use that the conception other people have of them can have. It's just about "business"... a person who relies deeply in a feeling can be easily manipualted by someone who knows what name to give to that feeling. In this case, she could have known you believe that Love is a true mighty feeling, and use that word as a simple key to get what she wanted from you, wether it would be something tiny or big...

I suggest you to go on... think again what Love really means to you and what can it mean to other people. Remember that not because you have a certain idea of the significance of a word, mean that everyone believes the same.

You and me might not be "friends" or anything close, but i think i know how you feel, don't be sad mate... that kind of people does not deserve your tears (just a way to say it).

There are no boys who think with their heads in teh worldz.

Anyway, back on topic.
Girls are pro at lying and if a girl wants you, but wants some other guy too.. she'll say whatever she can to hold onto everyone and everything she can.

Just feels like I'm being crushed now. She keeps on repeating the fact, or telling her friends to tell me, that she doesn't like Justin. But he likes her. He told me, and I told her as well, so if she did, it's not like she's going to get rejected, now, is it? So shouldn't she be going out with her now?
(Seriously, I'm not trying to contradict what you're saying. I'm just really confused about everything, is all. Thanks. )
And if she ends up not going out with the guy, does that make a difference in things?

To the rest of you, Hyro, Exality, Shiz, Xemnas (you know we're Giraffe-Unitters in heart, for life, man), thanks. Especially Shiz, after your edit: "**** love."
Very wise words indeed. Just more to ponder over.

Those that think they've truly, and actually been in love before, and lost the person that they've loved - how did you feel? Just want a comparison...

My theory is if you really love someone, and then they leave you you'll be crushed for soooooooooooooooooo long.
If they truly love you too, then they won't break up with you, but if they have to move or something, then that's pretty understandable. They might not even move if they really love you, but then again, it could be the offer of their lifetime for their job.

Anyways, I'm sure you weren't in love.
If you were, you wouldn't tell us about this, and you wouldn't be as talkative as you are now.

i agree with ito. she will do whatever she can to keep you both on a leash.
like i said; ive been there.

edit: imo you were in love but you didnt love her
and dont get me wrong; thats not meant to be mean, but i think
thats the way it is.