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 Post subject: TheGentlemen is no more
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:51 am 
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I have disbanded the guild.

I don't think I can explain to you how extremely disappointed I am that some members chose to break the guild rules when Joymax gave them a possibility to do so. I am even more disappointed that members who have always followed the rules have left the guild in support of the rule-breakers. :(

TheGentlemen was a guild for ethical players. Like all other guilds it had rules. Ethicss do not depend on what features Joymax adds to the game. The game allows you to killsteal, yet people see it as unethical and wrong. The game allows you to attack 1-star traders, yet people see it as unethical and wrong. The game allows you to take other people's drops, yet I see it as unethical and wrong - and the rules made that very clear from day one. I am sad to say that it seems that very few of the members took this guild as seriously as I did. To those that did - thank you.

I invested a lot of time and money in this guild, and it saddens me that people joined it apparently just to have a guild name over their heads, without actually caring about the rules. This is a matter of principle. Some may say that it's no big deal if you steal someone else's drops. Well, no, it might not be, but a person who think it's alright to break one of the guild rules - not even seeing anything wrong with doing so - might just as well break any of the rules. And that I cannot accept. :(

I am very desillusioned right now. I thought I had found a lot of great players, and I still think I did...but somewhere along the line something went wrong. I don't know what, and I don't know why. I would like to keep the guild going, to make a name in the game. I want people to see a member of TheGentlemen and know that's a person they can trust to play fairly.

I am afraid that will never happen.

I am so disappointed I don't even want to play this game anymore. :(


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:25 pm 
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Keep your head up marcato, you tried your best, dont quit playing :P

You can always re-build your guild, and take full care of who you allow in. Maybe if you asked them for small donations they would keep the rules, not wanting to break them after spending gold :)

Either way, im sorry to hear this.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:31 pm 
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Let me be clear on something.

I came to this guild because it has ethics. I came to this guild because like you, I wanted to show that there are nice people in this game. Yes, we have made a name so far, I have people asking me if they can join in the guild because the liked what our guild stands for. I have other guilds asking me if I wanted to come to an Alliance with them because of our values. Our name was there, and so was our reputation. There are people who say "Hi Kard!" to me when I do my trade runs. Some of these people I do not even know and told me that they heard of my kind deeds and what our guild was about. Far-fetched? No.

Sooner than later, I realised that there is something wrong with this guild. There was underlying tension. While I enjoy doing trades, becoming a hunter and even went as far as trying out the thief job, there was underlying tension. Marcato, I have nothing against you as a person. You are someone who I deem as nice and good. A good heart so to say but I cannot handle it that you are quick to be angry and frustrated.

When I asked if it is okay to add who and who to the guild, you said so long as they are agreeable to the guild rules. You have to realise that I do not completely know your expectations and your thinking, your mindset and what you have planned for this guild. I don't exactly know what you expect of new players. In such, my ability to extend recruitment was limited because of that lacking. When I do ask you further, you shouted in-game at me. That, I was taken aback. Seriously. I asked you so as to get a clearer picture on what you wanted and what I should be looking out for. Yet, I get shouted at. I am someone who try to be sensitive to the feelings of others, went as far as whispering SamwiseTB and XiaoLei (IGN) to ask if what I said was offensive and if I hurt your feelings. You have played for sometime with me as well and you know what I'm like.

Yes, you mentioned that "no drop stealing". Marcato, I train in places that are not crowded with sometimes no one in visible range of sight. Yes, even at black tigers, white tigers, chakjis, ghost bugs, devil bugs, I train at places where there's almost no visible soul in sight. Maybe 1 or 2 people but they are far away. Yet, there are gold piles lying around. Since you are so strict to that rule, I know you will not pick it up. On occasion, when I really know there is no one around, I do pick it up. Sometimes because I'm desperate for gold. I don't kill green monsters like some of you do. I go for something exactly my level or 1 level higher. Like you mentioned before, "good for exp, bad for economy". Seeing that I have picked up gold lying around before, and you are very strict about it, then I have broken a guild rule.

I left because there is too much underlying tension. This is the real person speaking here. Not the character in game. As a person in real life, I do not like confrontation. I believe things can be discussed if everyone had an open mind and are willing to talk about it. As a real life person, I avoid politics of any kind. I do not like to be caught in any situation where I have to choose sides. I certainly do not like what is going on and I certainly have no heart for such things. Nothing in the world is beautiful, that much I know. When problems surfaces, sit, discuss and resolve. All I did ever see is this: Opinion stated. Opinion fired on.

I left because I do not want to partake in this "war between words" and I do not like feeling the underlying tension. I did not leave because I was supporting the rule breakers, as you call them. I left out of my own accord because I have no wish to be caught in the middle. Blame my growing up years for that but I do not like being put in such a position again.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:45 pm 
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Kard wrote:
All I did ever see is this: Opinion stated. Opinion fired on.


Have to agree with that, personally. Marcato you have a problem controlling your temper, quite frankly. If you let pixels on the screen affect you so deeply, it only detracts from your enjoyment of the game. Yes, game.

I'm disappointed by your actions, but it's your guild, your choice.

I've been involved in enough childish online-game politics to know that they are never worth getting into. Play the game, and have fun. If you always allow other peoples' actions to dictate whether or not you're having fun, then 90% of the time you won't.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:01 pm 
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... very sad to hear this ! :cry:

I never applied to The Gentlemen because I wanted to creat my own guild. But i always secretely hoped that the day it would be up, both guilds would be allied... ;)

Every time I've seen a gentleman, i made a point in rezzing / healing him and had some special salute for the guild and i will continue to do so, at least for the former gentlemen i know of...

but The gentlement is disbanded, and...


so be it ! :cry:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:09 pm 
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Kard wrote:
When I asked if it is okay to add who and who to the guild, you said so long as they are agreeable to the guild rules. You have to realise that I do not completely know your expectations and your thinking, your mindset and what you have planned for this guild. I don't exactly know what you expect of new players. In such, my ability to extend recruitment was limited because of that lacking. When I do ask you further, you shouted in-game at me. That, I was taken aback. Seriously. I asked you so as to get a clearer picture on what you wanted and what I should be looking out for. Yet, I get shouted at. I am someone who try to be sensitive to the feelings of others, went as far as whispering SamwiseTB and XiaoLei (IGN) to ask if what I said was offensive and if I hurt your feelings. You have played for sometime with me as well and you know what I'm like.

What the hell are you talking about? :? I honestly have no idea what you are talking about right now.


Quote:
I left because there is too much underlying tension. This is the real person speaking here. Not the character in game. As a person in real life, I do not like confrontation. I believe things can be discussed if everyone had an open mind and are willing to talk about it. As a real life person, I avoid politics of any kind. I do not like to be caught in any situation where I have to choose sides. I certainly do not like what is going on and I certainly have no heart for such things. Nothing in the world is beautiful, that much I know. When problems surfaces, sit, discuss and resolve. All I did ever see is this: Opinion stated. Opinion fired on.

Well, this makes me even more disappointed. I had no idea that anyone had any objections to how I ran the guild, or that there was "underlying tension", because no-one ever said anything. I am not a mind reader.

Quote:
I left because I do not want to partake in this "war between words" and I do not like feeling the underlying tension. I did not leave because I was supporting the rule breakers, as you call them. I left out of my own accord because I have no wish to be caught in the middle. Blame my growing up years for that but I do not like being put in such a position again.

I don't really care why you left, honestly. I am even more disappointed in you, as a matter of fact, since I gave you full authority over the guild. And in return you couldn't even tell me that there was "tension" or whatever you want to call it, and thus the guild is disbanded.

I am so very, very disappointed, and this has taken all the joy out of the game for me. I put everything I had into this game, helped as many people as I could, promoted the guild as much as I could - and what do I get in return? Nothing. Not even a "hey, we need to talk about something".

Well, you won't have to deal with me and my bad temper anymore, so I guess you're happy at least. :(


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:14 pm 
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Rage wrote:
Keep your head up marcato, you tried your best, dont quit playing :P

You can always re-build your guild, and take full care of who you allow in. Maybe if you asked them for small donations they would keep the rules, not wanting to break them after spending gold :)

Either way, im sorry to hear this.

That's not the way I want to do it. I want people who joing the guild and stay because they believe in it - not because they don't want to lose their gold.

But perhaps that's impossible.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:33 pm 
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The tension was between you and them, and I didn't realise it until the monkey stealing other people's drops thing came up and all over the forum. Seriously, that is not my fault and certainly I would not have known this myself until I read what was going on. Between you and me, there was no tension. Like I said, I have nothing against you and there is no tension between you and me.

I took your temper in my stride Marcato, perhaps it was something I needed to learn about you as a person as well. But I do what I did. You may feel disappointed that having given me the responsibility and I did this, leaving the guild. I will say nothing more. The tension was already apparent only after the implementation of the Item Mall and the deal that the monkeys take other people's drops. I thought it had become obvious after that.

I am assuming at this point but I am sure the others were learning about you too and as such did not raise the matter up, with regards to your quick-to-anger trait. Perhaps they were trying to get along with you as well, but if you have noticed, since the monkey grabbing-item issue, this issue escalated exponentially and far too fast for me to be able to do anything. Do you really needed me to inform you that there is something going on when it is already apparent to you that there is something going on?

Marcato, please... take a step back and look at what is going on from an outsider's point of view. You can feel as disappointed about me as you want, but I will not feel guilty about protecting my own heart when it comes to issues such as these.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:19 pm 
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I believe I told you in that last topic about your anger very clearly, why do you now, when Kard tell you about it, act so shocked? I think I even told you in the trade run topic that you shouldn't have gone off like that. But when I told you about your anger you seem to imply that anger is how leaders deal with problems and when you asked what I would do, I believe it was a rhetorical question but I gave my view anyway, and when I came back the guild was disbanded.

I'm disappointed in you, Marcato, as a leader, with your inability to see that you have a temper that hurts people, and with the fact that the only thing you feel is disappointment in others.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:15 pm 
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RedTyga wrote:
I believe I told you in that last topic about your anger very clearly, why do you now, when Kard tell you about it, act so shocked? I think I even told you in the trade run topic that you shouldn't have gone off like that. But when I told you about your anger you seem to imply that anger is how leaders deal with problems and when you asked what I would do, I believe it was a rhetorical question but I gave my view anyway, and when I came back the guild was disbanded.

I'm disappointed in you, Marcato, as a leader, with your inability to see that you have a temper that hurts people, and with the fact that the only thing you feel is disappointment in others.

But that's not what he's talking about, he's talking about something that I supposedly said in the game. What it is I have no idea. I have not said a word about anger or "how leaders deal with problems", nor did you write anything of the kind in the trade thread; now you're just making things up.

The thread started with me wanting the members to tell me when they were available for a trade run. I wanted them to post the time in GMT, military time. I explained what military time is for those who did not know, and I gave a link to http://www.worldtimezone.com/, where they explain not only military time, but also what GMT is.

What happened? Two of the three people that answered didn't answer in GMT or military time. That's when I said "forget it, I'm calling it off", because if people can't even follow the very simple instructions on how to give the time (or ask about it, if they're unsure of have any questions, which NOT A SINGLE PERSON DID), how are they supposed to be able to be part of an organised caravan?

And in the other thread you are referring to, you said that I took all the fun out of being in a guild because of my "negative comments and demeanor". Well, when I have a problem with someone, I tell them. You didn't. Don't you think that things could perhaps have been handled in a different way if you had just stated your opinion? Because apparently you have been disappointed for a while, and I have not heard a single word about it.

Not a word. Not from anyone.

Why?

And just what is my "negative demeanor"? I didn't even kick people out of the guild for breaking the rules and boasting about the items they got from their monkeys on the forum. I wanted to discuss it and settle it, but some wouldn't even give me the chance to do that, but just left the guild instead. I even posted a notice that I would personally reimburse anyone who lost an item because of a monkey belonging to a guild member stealing it. How is that being negative? Wouldn't it have been a whole lot easier to just kick the people who used monkeys to take other player's items from the guild? Instead, I came up with a temporary solution, but by then, people had already left.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:23 pm 
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Kard wrote:
The tension was between you and them, and I didn't realise it until the monkey stealing other people's drops thing came up and all over the forum. Seriously, that is not my fault and certainly I would not have known this myself until I read what was going on. Between you and me, there was no tension. Like I said, I have nothing against you and there is no tension between you and me.

I took your temper in my stride Marcato, perhaps it was something I needed to learn about you as a person as well. But I do what I did. You may feel disappointed that having given me the responsibility and I did this, leaving the guild. I will say nothing more. The tension was already apparent only after the implementation of the Item Mall and the deal that the monkeys take other people's drops. I thought it had become obvious after that.

I am assuming at this point but I am sure the others were learning about you too and as such did not raise the matter up, with regards to your quick-to-anger trait. Perhaps they were trying to get along with you as well, but if you have noticed, since the monkey grabbing-item issue, this issue escalated exponentially and far too fast for me to be able to do anything. Do you really needed me to inform you that there is something going on when it is already apparent to you that there is something going on?

Marcato, please... take a step back and look at what is going on from an outsider's point of view. You can feel as disappointed about me as you want, but I will not feel guilty about protecting my own heart when it comes to issues such as these.

As soon as it came to my attention that guild members were using monkeys to steal other people's drops, I made the rules even more clear by adding that stealing by monkey is also stealing. I couldn't in my wildest dreams imagine that a member who agreed to the guild rules would buy a monkey to steal items, but I guess that it's more important for some people to get ahead in the game than following the guild rules. Which is sad.

I also immediately offered to personally reimburse anyone who had lost an item. I never asked anyone to leave the guild because of this. I didn't even ask them (much less tell them) to only let the monkeys pick up their own drops. I wanted to find out who was doing what and why, before I did anything. The next thing I know, several people have left the guild, without saying anything. Not a pm, not a single post, no willingness to discuss the issue, no nothing.

And that is why I am so disappointed.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:42 pm 
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Lots of pieces of emotions laying on the ground here. Heres an attempt to pick some of those up. Not everything in this post is going to be 'carebear' - but rather what people need to hear.

Good leadership is not something people natually have. Its a learned quality. Leadership is something you learn over time and through experience. I am the admin of about 4 sites now. Two of them are large communities. This community here is small in comparison. If you think its tough to run a guild of 20 people, try a forum with 5,000 people. Of course, a guild is a much more personal niche and takes fine qualities to hold it together.

You cannot create rules that you cannot enforce. Its almost rediculous to make a rule such as 'not picking up other peoples gold drops'. These are rules you have no way in hell of enforcing on people. Not only are 99% of the players doing it, theres nothing you can do except grow angry, or kick people from the guild. For picking up gold? Cmon man... you have better things to worry about than that.

No offense Marcato, but my monkey steals everything in site. I make so much gold from being near the flowers, scorps and other players - its not even funny. Yet it doesnt bother me one bit. Its part of the game. Pick up your drops if you don't want it to happen. Does this make me a 'bad' person? Certainly not. Do you see ME as a bad person? Because of the way I play SRO?

Heres what happens... You make rules that you have no way to enforce. People will do them anyway. You become fustrated and angry. Why? Because your trying to control something that you cannot possibly control. The situation breaks down, and the group falls apart.

Ethics of gameplay? I am level 40 now. I understand your quite a compassionate person for other players and morals. But I've killed countless traders, thieves and hunters in my day. I've also been ownt countless times. Its part of the game. This WHOLE game revolves around thief, trader and hunter on the SILKROAD. Its the basic fundementals of the game. You can't ask anyone in a guild to be "this or that". My guild has traders, thieves, and hunters. Hell, I even kill thieves just so we can take the loot. I dont have res. If a trader falls down, I call my thieves - and they take it. I play for my guild or friends - not for others. I laugh when little people attack my NPC's and die in one hit. As mean as it is, to me ITS FUNNY.

Its all part of the game. Doesnt make me evil, and doesnt make me a bad person. Some people choose to play differently and be helpfull. I take care of my guild and my own group. When I feel bad for someone, I help them. When I dont - I laugh at them. It goes both ways.

Disbanding the guild without talking about it with them is an example of poor leadership. Instead of discussing it - and listening to what people had to say - you threw in the towel and called it quits :(

I **** up. I make mistakes. I'm human and I make poor decisions sometimes. I left the guild once because I was pissed off.

Leadership is a learned quality.
We learn from our mistakes and failures.
We all have ideas sometimes that others don't like
Getting angry doesnt make issues go away. It makes people go away.

You have a lifetime left to learn. Next time, you will do better.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:21 pm 
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EDIT: nevermind, didn't see the other dates

ting


Last edited by tingboy on Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:22 pm 
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Well put Ryoko succinct and to the point


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:26 pm 
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tingboy wrote:
this was posted a month ago... is this still true? i mean the guild being disbanded...

ting


Ting... you're reading the date wrong. This was posted on the 21st March 2006.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:27 pm 
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yea, i just noticed that... thanks bud... :)

ting


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 Post subject: As a Final Farewell
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:29 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:36 pm 
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finally !!!!

someone took a screeny of my salutes... :D :oops:

:D :D

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:40 pm 
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Thank u Ryoko for all the times u typed in the guild chat "2 STAR TRADE AT THE FERRY" when u do a trade run :D

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:00 pm 
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SD_Ryoko wrote:
Lots of pieces of emotions laying on the ground here. Heres an attempt to pick some of those up. Not everything in this post is going to be 'carebear' - but rather what people need to hear.

Good leadership is not something people natually have. Its a learned quality. Leadership is something you learn over time and through experience. I am the admin of about 4 sites now. Two of them are large communities. This community here is small in comparison. If you think its tough to run a guild of 20 people, try a forum with 5,000 people. Of course, a guild is a much more personal niche and takes fine qualities to hold it together.

You cannot create rules that you cannot enforce. Its almost rediculous to make a rule such as 'not picking up other peoples gold drops'. These are rules you have no way in hell of enforcing on people. Not only are 99% of the players doing it, theres nothing you can do except grow angry, or kick people from the guild. For picking up gold? Cmon man... you have better things to worry about than that.

No offense Marcato, but my monkey steals everything in site. I make so much gold from being near the flowers, scorps and other players - its not even funny. Yet it doesnt bother me one bit. Its part of the game. Pick up your drops if you don't want it to happen. Does this make me a 'bad' person? Certainly not. Do you see ME as a bad person? Because of the way I play SRO?

No, I don't see you as a bad person. And pickign up gold was never against the rules. I see now that when I changed the rules to allow thieves I forgot that, but the original wording was about ITEMS, not gold. Luring your high lvl NPC thieves to attack a 1-star trader is ALSO a part of the game. Do you think that's okay?

Quote:
Heres what happens... You make rules that you have no way to enforce. People will do them anyway. You become fustrated and angry. Why? Because your trying to control something that you cannot possibly control. The situation breaks down, and the group falls apart.

Ethics of gameplay? I am level 40 now. I understand your quite a compassionate person for other players and morals. But I've killed countless traders, thieves and hunters in my day. I've also been ownt countless times. Its part of the game. This WHOLE game revolves around thief, trader and hunter on the SILKROAD. Its the basic fundementals of the game. You can't ask anyone in a guild to be "this or that". My guild has traders, thieves, and hunters. Hell, I even kill thieves just so we can take the loot. I dont have res. If a trader falls down, I call my thieves - and they take it. I play for my guild or friends - not for others. I laugh when little people attack my NPC's and die in one hit. As mean as it is, to me ITS FUNNY.

Its all part of the game. Doesnt make me evil, and doesnt make me a bad person. Some people choose to play differently and be helpfull. I take care of my guild and my own group. When I feel bad for someone, I help them. When I dont - I laugh at them. It goes both ways.

We had thieves, hunters and traders as well. And of course I can ask people to play a certain way IF THEY WANT TO BE PART OF THE GUILD. Just look at BlackHand. They have existed since the Alpha stage, and they basically have the same rules we had.

Quote:
Disbanding the guild without talking about it with them is an example of poor leadership. Instead of discussing it - and listening to what people had to say - you threw in the towel and called it quits :(

I flark up. I make mistakes. I'm human and I make poor decisions sometimes. I left the guild once because I was pissed off.

Leadership is a learned quality.
We learn from our mistakes and failures.
We all have ideas sometimes that others don't like
Getting angry doesnt make issues go away. It makes people go away.

You have a lifetime left to learn. Next time, you will do better.

I did talk about it, in our forum. I asked if I should disband the guild, since people obviously didn't care about the rules. The answers I got were "do what you want", "I don't really care what you do" and then people left. Even Kard, who I have always liked, who did nothing wrong, and who was the leader of the guild in my absence, left without any notice at all. By then it was clear to me that no-one actually wanted to create a guild of good players.

And no, I won't do better next time. I will delete all my characters. I have no desire to play this game anymore.

By the way, TheGentlemen still exists. If anyone wants it, let me know. The only thing I ask is that you try to keep the guild rules as close the existing rules as possible. I would feel more comfortable giving it to one of the members, but I doubt any of them want it. :(


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:06 pm 
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Wow. I don't know what to say.

I really liked being in TheGentlemen and I liked what it stood for. There definitely was tension over the monkeys, though.

I'm sad to see the guild go. :(

Everyone in the guild will always be a friend to me in the game.
I hope most of us can join BlackHand and keep gaming together.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:13 pm 
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well i dont know if im the right person to be talking about this but SD is in the BH alliance and as a member and one of the oldest players on SRO (started since one or 2 weeks before Beta version came out and the server whas renamed form international to xian :P) i can say this no Black hand on no other guild will tell me not to pich up other ppl loot if thay havent picked it up in the time that the game give u to pick up ur drops if it longer thatn that and i see that hes not gona even bother piking it up i will

i have picked up other ppls loot and even picked up a weapon elixir that Blain (curently SD guild leader when this happend we whe both n00bs in a guild kaled korosuElite :P) didnt notice it drop.

PS: i did give it back to him in the end oltho he didnt notice the drop lol :D
if i didnt take it some other guy would lol

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:14 pm 
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In respect to the word 'private' I do not read or spend any time in the indiviual guild forums.

So I don't know any of the details, rules or what happened. I am only speculating, based on what I read.

Small facts aside, the most important thing I said

Leadership is a quality thats learned.

Marcato wrote:
And no, I won't do better next time. I will delete all my characters. I have no desire to play this game anymore.


So instead of learning and making better decisions, your just going to take your ball and go home?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:17 pm 
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Just read your last post Marcato. I think you're overreacting by quitting the game and deleting your characters. :shock:

If someone would take over The Gentlemen I wouldn't mind staying. I don't think I have what it takes to be the leader, though. :(

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:22 pm 
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OneManArmy1 wrote:
Just read your last post Marcato. I think you're overreacting by quitting the game and deleting your characters. :shock:

If someone would take over The Gentlemen I wouldn't mind staying. I don't think I have what it takes to be the leader, though. :(

If you want to stay - great! I'll keep the guild running until I can find someone I really trust to take it over, if you don't want to.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:23 pm 
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OneManArmy1 wrote:
Just read your last post Marcato. I think you're overreacting by quitting the game and deleting your characters. :shock:

If someone would take over The Gentlemen I wouldn't mind staying. I don't think I have what it takes to be the leader, though. :(

btw, you'd be surprised if you were placed in that position... i've seen 'regular' individuals become great leaders given the opportunity and chance... so don't knock yourself quite yet there army... ;)

ting


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:46 pm 
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Yeah Army, don't sell yourself short. You might make a good leader and Marcato feels that you're suitable. Give it a try. Who knows where you can bring this guild to.

As Marcato, seriously... re-think about it. Losing your members is not a reason that you should quit playing. I'm sure you had fun when you played, so keep at it.

I will not fire anything back anymore because I really feel its redundant that we shoot each other at point blank but please do not accuse us of not caring about the guild. In our own ways, we all wanted the guild to succeed. Some do it by risking their necks, doing multiple trades to help raise the gold. Some do it by giving us a good name. Others do it by showing compassion to other players. Some others do it by charging up the level ladder so that others below them can benefit from them once they are high level. As far as the guild rules are concerned, you have to keep in mind that there needs to be some form of flexibility.

You claimed that I have never done anything wrong. You know why? Because it is whom I am as a person. I did not abide the rules at all. It just so happen that that is whom I am. I go out of my way to res someone who asks for help. I stop grinding when a trader passes by and looks like he's in trouble. I stop strolling and put my neck in for a low level hunter getting killed by a high level thief, risking my life and exp. I reimburse some noob 100% of her 2 star trade because she didn't know anything about trading. I followed noobs around because they ask for help and guidance. Sure, to a lot of others, that's like going out of their way but to me, it is just me, I do it because that is whom I am as a person. You can't expect others to be like me though... and that too does not mean I don't abide rules.

I'm backing out of the argument, not because I have nothing to defend myself with, I do but I really really don't want things to get ugly. Let the matter rest.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:19 pm 
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Marcato wrote:
But that's not what he's talking about, he's talking about something that I supposedly said in the game. What it is I have no idea. I have not said a word about anger or "how leaders deal with problems", nor did you write anything of the kind in the trade thread; now you're just making things up.


He's talking about your temper, something I hav encountered both in game and on the board. And you did say something about how leaders deal with their problems. I told you about your anger, your temper, how you react to people and you responded with how the hell do you think a leader is supposed to act. I further more commented about your anger and how you deal with people who don't understand the rules and you responded with your rhetorical question should I act like nothing is happening then, they aren't following the rules? Clearly you are not understanding me, and your inability to realise that people misunderstand you causes you to go off.

And in the trade thread I said you didn't have to go off like that, I said you could have just explained what GMT was.

Quote:
The thread started with me wanting the members to tell me when they were available for a trade run. I wanted them to post the time in GMT, military time. I explained what military time is for those who did not know, and I gave a link to http://www.worldtimezone.com/, where they explain not only military time, but also what GMT is.

What happened? Two of the three people that answered didn't answer in GMT or military time. That's when I said "forget it, I'm calling it off", because if people can't even follow the very simple instructions on how to give the time (or ask about it, if they're unsure of have any questions, which NOT A SINGLE PERSON DID), how are they supposed to be able to be part of an organised caravan?


First of all, that link you gave said nothing of what GMT was, I looked, I read every word of your post before I posted my response, and you nor that site said "GMT is Greenwich Mean Time. The time at Greenwich, England, which is used as the basis for standard time throughout the world." Second of all, I gave my response in military time, but I included at the end of that Los Angeles time, because I didn't know what GMT was and from the link you gave and you explaining military time, I thought GMT had to do with military time. So did the other poster that gave their time. And what was your response? You overreacted, called the trade off because we "couldn't read or follow directions". Now let me ask you this: If people are posting in military time, but are adding the city that is closest to where they live from the link you gave, what does that tell you about them knowing what GMT is? It might be that they don't know what it is, yet you say that site explains what it is, please, point it out where it defines GMT.

Again, your fault is not being able to realize that some people might not understand something in your posts and your natural reaction to it is to go off on people and accuse them of not reading what you say or following what you say instead of what most other people would do, which is to explain what the thing people aren't getting is.

Quote:
And in the other thread you are referring to, you said that I took all the fun out of being in a guild because of my "negative comments and demeanor". Well, when I have a problem with someone, I tell them. You didn't. Don't you think that things could perhaps have been handled in a different way if you had just stated your opinion? Because apparently you have been disappointed for a while, and I have not heard a single word about it.


Yeah, because I thought it would change, I didn't think a leader could be that bad all the time. I was wrong, and with that last thread, I voiced my thoughts. And I don't think it could have been handled differently, because as I said in that thread, you aren't open to different opinions, and again, as I told you about your anger, you seemed to equate anger and frustration with leading.

Quote:
And just what is my "negative demeanor"? I didn't even kick people out of the guild for breaking the rules and boasting about the items they got from their monkeys on the forum. I wanted to discuss it and settle it, but some wouldn't even give me the chance to do that, but just left the guild instead. I even posted a notice that I would personally reimburse anyone who lost an item because of a monkey belonging to a guild member stealing it. How is that being negative? Wouldn't it have been a whole lot easier to just kick the people who used monkeys to take other player's items from the guild? Instead, I came up with a temporary solution, but by then, people had already left.


You negative demeanor is this, overreacting, being in a fowl mood, complaining and bitching about something. And when did you want to discuss monkeys? When Devotia tried to defend herself (or himself, not exactly sure) for having a monkey, your response was to belittle her, saying boohoo, all well, you shouldn't drop steal, and that was your whole arguement about monkeys; it's botting and it's drop stealing, both are against the rules. How the hell is that discussing the situation about monkeys? That's you giving your opinion and telling people there is no discussion about it.

Quote:
No, I don't see you as a bad person. And pickign up gold was never against the rules. I see now that when I changed the rules to allow thieves I forgot that, but the original wording was about ITEMS, not gold. Luring your high lvl NPC thieves to attack a 1-star trader is ALSO a part of the game. Do you think that's okay?


Oh, so picking up gold is OK? Yeah, this is an example of poor leadership and not explaining what you mean. The rule said no dropstealing, that's it. Well WTF does that mean? Can't steal hover over someone's drops waiting the timer to go off? Is it OK to pick up stuff that's in the middle of no where, where no other player is around? All drops? Only gold? Only gear?

I even explained that in the last thread, I told you not to get pissed for not explaining a subjective rule and even more, a rule that's not even clearly defined.

Quote:
I did talk about it, in our forum. I asked if I should disband the guild, since people obviously didn't care about the rules. The answers I got were "do what you want", "I don't really care what you do" and then people left. Even Kard, who I have always liked, who did nothing wrong, and who was the leader of the guild in my absence, left without any notice at all. By then it was clear to me that no-one actually wanted to create a guild of good players.


Yeah, I gave that response, but you know why I said it? If you read it, which I'm doubting you are sense you keep on bringing up points that I have addressed in that thread, I said I didn't like your temper. That was why. I didn't care for you how lead, and so, when you wanted to disband, I didn't care what you did. But honestly, I thought Kard would have made an exellent leader, so if Kard is willing, I'd suggest he should take the full leadership role.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:25 pm 
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Slow down Tyga. This isn't helping anyone, well maybe your satisfaction. Everyone is trying to work this out. The least you could do is not correct people in a time of distress. Nothing negative towards you either, I'm just saying that we need to get along and not point and laugh about each other mistakes.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:34 pm 
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It is helping me, because what's pissing me off is Marcato acting like the victim when a large part of the problem started with him. And the fact that he seems to be inable to understand what people are saying, so correction is probably something that he needs and I'm gonna keep on responding to his posts till we finally get to some kind of mutual ground. Marcato said he expresses his feelings when he doesn't like something, so now I'm doing it when I feel it, and when I look at his posts, I get pissed off and I'm not going to let that just go by, especially sense you want to fix the problem.

EDIT: OK, I'm gonna try to act decent. You'll have to forgive me, I got sick this morning and I'm PMSing, so my hormones are all over the place, but I'll keep the long ass negative posts to a minimum.

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Last edited by RedTyga on Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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