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MrJoey
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:34 am |
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Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 5570 Location: Being the forum ritalin
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heroo wrote: @ Joey
I would like to bang your head against the wall until you get the same stupidity as me. I know I am right and I'm fully convinced of my beliefs. That's not stupidity, but it's my strong belief. I don't approve any homo sexuality and never will.
That's exactly the thing, you don't know that you're right about your beliefs... What makes you so much more right than the priest next door that's a Lutheran and thinks his religion is right? Or the f ucking pope? You don't know you're right, you believe you're right, but that's a big difference.
_________________ Quoted from BuDo (Except I Am Vegeta cuz we all know he is a used tampon when it comes to his personality)
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Fiction
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:43 am |
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McLovin1t wrote: inky he's talking to me. I think it's kinda sad that your logic actually connects gay marriage and the carrying of a gun you idiot. Can gay marriage hurt anyone? Maybe your ego, but that's it. Can guns hurt people, yes. In areas with more guns, more people die, self-defense isn't a valid reason to own a gun, so now grow up you idiot. I don't care if you don't answer my arguments, I think it's just sad that you ignore the meat of them, and assume that one blippy sentence of yours could actually address my argument as a whole, I guess you think you are clever or something. Also, Fiction, I resent you calling my opinions beliefs. Beliefs are similar to faith which is basically blindly following how you feel with no evidence, and EVERYTHING that I believe has evidence or empirics backing it up, now you, not so much. Dang you really got me... I connected two human rights that we have here in America. One you want to take away cuz you're scared could hurt America, and the other you want expanded because you feel it will help the progress of America. Now look at that from either your point of view or a more conservative person's and its just two different sides of the same coin. A conservative feels gay marriage would hurt America... yada yada. Here's your logic... Can guns hurt people? Yes. Okay, Ban! Can Knives hurt people? Yes. Okay. Can Cars hurt people? Yes. Okay. Can Human fist hurt people? Yes. Okay. Just because something CAN hurt someone doesn't mean you should ban it. In one side of your mouth you are screaming bigots and out the other side you are yelling take their rights! How I have to end all my arguments with you... GTFO of your mom's basement... go live in the real world for once... Not everyone in this world is out to kill you with a gun just because they have one... not everything is how Micheal Moore makes it out in his movies, and not everyone needs the government to hold their Farking hand to take a piss. Also... WTF is this thing about Opinion=/=Belief shit.. You're Opinion is based on your beliefs... Stop grasping at straws
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Breed
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:51 am |
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Fuckit, I'd ban a lot if it's going to save thousands of lives. Buy guns to stop people who have guns killing you with guns. Vicious cycle.
_________________ No matter how much you think you love somebody, you'll step back when the pool of their blood edges up too close.
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heroo
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:56 am |
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McLovin1t wrote: Also, Fiction, I resent you calling my opinions beliefs. Beliefs are similar to faith which is basically blindly following how you feel with no evidence, and EVERYTHING that I believe has evidence or empirics backing it up, now you, not so much. that's why you'll always stay stupid.
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''When I die, make sure they bury me upside down, so that the world can kiss my ass.''
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Love
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:20 am |
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Breed wrote: Fuckit, I'd ban a lot if it's going to save thousands of lives. Buy guns to stop people who have guns killing you with guns. Vicious cycle. If they were no guns people would kill you and conduct criminal activity with their bare fists or alternative weapons such as knives, you aren't saving the world mother Teresa. edit: lol was looking at this and the gun thread and lost track, going to leave the response there for good times.
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Guild Wars 2, Isle of Janthir (NA) Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken.
Last edited by Love on Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Goseki
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:23 am |
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heroo wrote: McLovin1t wrote: Also, Fiction, I resent you calling my opinions beliefs. Beliefs are similar to faith which is basically blindly following how you feel with no evidence, and EVERYTHING that I believe has evidence or empirics backing it up, now you, not so much. that's why you'll always stay stupid. The IRONY... 
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.curve wrote: Unless Silkroad has a hole I can stick it in, I prefer spending money on the girlfriend.


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Breed
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:24 am |
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I still think I'd take bare fist and knife casualties to gun casualties on TOP of that. I'm no Saviour but I'm also not a part of the reckless gun culture in America.
_________________ No matter how much you think you love somebody, you'll step back when the pool of their blood edges up too close.
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Love
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:29 am |
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Breed wrote: I still think I'd take bare fist and knife casualties to gun casualties on TOP of that. I'm no Saviour but I'm also not a part of the reckless gun culture in America. You have no clue of what you are talking about and the result of what your views are you will endure in your flesh, that simple, that easy, moving on.
_________________
Guild Wars 2, Isle of Janthir (NA) Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken.
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Breed
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:32 am |
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Love wrote: Breed wrote: I still think I'd take bare fist and knife casualties to gun casualties on TOP of that. I'm no Saviour but I'm also not a part of the reckless gun culture in America. You have no clue of what you are talking about and the result of what your views are you will endure in your flesh, that simple, that easy, moving on. Thanks for explaining champ, then this is where we part ways.
_________________ No matter how much you think you love somebody, you'll step back when the pool of their blood edges up too close.
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McLovin1t
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:39 am |
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Fiction, your argument right now has 3 main flaws that I will point out: 1. Analogy of guns to marriage is incorrect. Right to marriage we provide to certain groups, and guns to all groups. Your analogy would actually be represented should we let say only heterosexual people have guns etc. Basically there is really no connection between the two, other than that they are two (totally DIFFERENT) rights. And I guess conservatives have the rather deformed and retarded side of the coin, because there are no empirics that explain that gay marriage hurts people. I guess you righties should open up your eyes, and realize that equality really won't hurt so bad, except it may hurt your ego  Basically, conservatives have no real reason to hate gay marriage except for their own beliefs, as no empirics back up the idea that gay marriage will hurt people. This is truly inappropriate considering the long standing ideal of separation of church and state, but I guess you repubs don't really care about that do you, I mean look at the Kansas Evolutionary hearings etc. I guess what we can gather from this debate is that liberals (I shouldn't generalize, but I guess we can specify this for gay marriage and other social issues) like to ban/expand "rights" that hurt people or promote equality based on empirics, rather than conservatives who would ban/expand rights based on bigotry/beliefs, as there have been no empirics backing up ANY of your points. 2. You have yet to make an argument against gay marriage, just ad hominem all over the place, with analogies. I want an actual argument, not some dumb blips coming out of your computer, right now no one has provided an actual argument against gay marriage that isn't grounded in (ridiculous?) beliefs. 3. Argument for knives etc. I already addressed, but I guess I'll re-post it. I guess consistency might get to you right? Probably not, but I'm just trying to help. Other weapons "People kill with knifes, too. Do you want to ban knifes?" From Dr. Roth's study: The overall fatality rate in gun robberies is an estimated 4 per 1,000--about 3 times the rate for knife robberies, 10 times the rate for robberies with other weapons, and 20 times the rate for robberies by unarmed offenders. (Cook, Philip J., "Robbery Violence," Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, 78-2, (1987):357-376.) For assaults, a crime which includes threats, the most widely cited estimate of the fatality rate is derived from a 1968 analysis of assaults and homicides committed in Chicago. The study, prepared for the National Commission on the Causes and Prevention of Violence, reported that gun attacks kill 12.2 percent of their intended victims. This is about 5 times as often as in attacks with knives, the second most deadly weapon used in violent crimes.(Newton, G.D., and F.E. Zimring, Firearms and Violence in American Life: A Staff Report Submitted to the National Commission on the Causes and Prevention of Violence, Washington, D.C.: National Commission on the Causes and Prevention of Violence, 1969.) With one exception, more recent studies have generally concluded that death was at least twice as likely in gun assaults as in knife assaults. (The exception is Kleck and McElrath, "The Effects of Weaponry on Human Violence.") An offshoot of this argument is the old classic "cars kill more people than guns, but we don't ban cars." The response to this irrelevant argument is that cars have other usage, whereas guns basically just kill, or threaten to kill. Their one potentially valid use, self-defense, is undercut by the statistics by Kellerman and Zimring previously cited, as well as fatal weaknesses in the arguments of Lott and Kleck. Edit: I guess the other weapons part also addresses Love's underdeveloped, underreseareched, and unintelligent argument saying that banning guns doesn't stop criminal activity of knives and fists. According to all these (multivariate) analyses, knife violence, and other weapon violence are anywhere from 2-12 x less deadly than gun violence. I'd take that any day. Look at the gun thread for the other studies explaining why having guns is in fact the vicious cycle, and how criminals would not obtain them in fact if guns were less traded. Look to empirics, not blindly accepting what you think logically works (even though your argument is not logical). Edit 2: I just saw your argument below mine, and look to the gun thread, I guess I'll just post it, but most guns that are gotten illegally are either A. Stolen from law abiding citizens or B. Bought in states with weaker gun laws and brought to states with heavier gun laws to sell. This study (Arthur Kellermann et. al., "Gun Ownership as a Risk Factor for Homicide in the Home," The New England Journal of Medicine, October 7, 1993, pp. 1084-1091) has been much maligned by the gun lobby, but despite repeated efforts to tar it as non-scientific, its publication in one of the most respected peer-reviewed journals in the world is just one indiciation of its soundness. For a complete and vigorous defense of the study, please see this essay by Steve Kangas. Obviously, there is a problem with criminals having access to guns, which is why so many people feel they, too, need a gun for self-defense. But this is a vicious cycle: FBI Crime Reports sources indicate that there are about 340,000 reported firearms thefts every year. Those guns, the overwhelming amount of which were originally manufactured and purchased legally, and now in the hands of criminals. Thus, the old credo "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" is silly. What happens is many guns bought legally are sold or stolen, and can then be used for crime. If those 340,000 guns were never sold or owned in the first place, that would be 340,000 less guns in the hands of criminals every year. Part of the reason there are so many guns on the street in the hands of criminals is precisely because so many are sold legally. Certainly, there will always be a way to obtain a gun illegally. But if obtaining a gun legally is extremely difficult, the price of illegal guns goes way up, and availability goes way down. Thus, it is much more difficult for criminals to obtain guns.
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Last edited by McLovin1t on Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Love
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:54 am |
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Breed wrote: Love wrote: Breed wrote: I still think I'd take bare fist and knife casualties to gun casualties on TOP of that. I'm no Saviour but I'm also not a part of the reckless gun culture in America. You have no clue of what you are talking about and the result of what your views are you will endure in your flesh, that simple, that easy, moving on. Thanks for explaining champ, then this is where we part ways. Not trying to be a dick or anything, is rather that I think people should educate and develop rational thought themselves. @Mc: for how many of those crimes/statistics were legal carries or "law abiding citizens" responsible ?
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Guild Wars 2, Isle of Janthir (NA) Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken.
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Breed
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:58 am |
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My train of thought says that knives and fists will cause less deaths than knives, fists AND guns. You can try talk down to people all you want but just coughing up dismissive quotes won't do you any good. Make me a fool, I'm always willing to learn.
_________________ No matter how much you think you love somebody, you'll step back when the pool of their blood edges up too close.
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MrTwilliger
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:58 am |
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Gay marriage? Muhammad? Knives? Guns? Christ, where was I when this thread unfolding? All that gay sex is really distracting.
On a more relevant note, I support it, simply because I don't 'not' support it. I see no reason for me to believe that they shouldn't get married, so it leads me to logically conclude that they should have the right to do so. I mean, I don't give a shit what they do to be honest. If they are happy and in love, than go for it. 2 penises, 1 penis, no penis, it's all the same to me.
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William-CL
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:33 am |
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They deserve the right to be miserable like everyone else right?
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Key-J
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:27 am |
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Gay Marriage, in my eyes. It's not something horrible. I have gay friends, and, if they want to get married, id support them just like i would a straight couple
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Fiction
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:56 pm |
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Damn McLovin is more of an idiot than I gave him credit for... and you can see that he learns a new word every time you argue with him...
I understand why you can't follow logic and why you can't understand why people don't approve of gay marriage. Just like you're too stupid to understand guns and gun laws, they are too stupid to understand marriage and marriage laws. Just like you're not open and understanding to anything that doesn't fit with your "protecting everyone from themselves" views.
Like love said... How many were CHL and not your average thug? Once you take away guns, the next thing would be knives to take their place.... so of course you gotta ban those to save everyone. + You'll never take the guns out of the hands of criminals using any kind of law.
Why should I give any argument against gay marriage? I don't give a rats ass if gays wed. I do not understand how gay sex works out in nature but I do know cpinney is a doctor and he healed me with it.
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CeLL
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:14 pm |
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if they take away guns, they just go and get other guns. they dont go to knives. not many creatures in nature are partners for life, so i also dont get why people keep comparing gay humans to animals. but then again, if they want to compare themselves or those they support, to animals i guess thats their problem. as soon as i see 2 male swans grinding each other for life the you can use the "gay in nature" as an arguement for marriage. the only thing that "gay in nature" proves is that some creatures go to any length to pleasure themselves. dolphins are known to have sex for pleasure and will have male on male action if no female is available, but that hardly counts as an arguement for gay marriage. they just need to make a secular, civil union for gays so they can reap the benifits of taxes and insurance and such.
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hey
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:40 pm |
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blahblahblah
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:55 pm |
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The reason same-sex marriage is illegal is because it is viewed as immoral. I believe our governments should not weigh in on moral issues. Therefore, same-sex marriages should be legal.
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Proud to be an AmericanMy mama always said, "If you don’t have anything nice to say to someone, then don’t say anything." My Brute is such fun...check it out! http://brainfart.mybrute.com
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CeLL
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:05 pm |
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blahblahblah wrote: The reason same-sex marriage is illegal is because it is viewed as immoral. I believe our governments should not weigh in on moral issues. Therefore, same-sex marriages should be legal. agreed. itd be like our government telling religions what day they can gather on. though i think sodomy is illegal due to other possible complications it can cause, but im not sure.
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strangelove
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:43 pm |
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CeLL wrote: blahblahblah wrote: The reason same-sex marriage is illegal is because it is viewed as immoral. I believe our governments should not weigh in on moral issues. Therefore, same-sex marriages should be legal. agreed. itd be like our government telling religions what day they can gather on. though i think sodomy is illegal due to other possible complications it can cause, but im not sure. IIRC, sodomy laws in the US also include oral sex and some go as far as to include masturbation, which aren't exclusive to homosexuals. I think there also might be harsher punishment if the couple is breaking sodomy law and unmarried too.
What I don't understand is why the government would even give any rights to married couples. I think the ideal solution would be if couples (consenting adults) had a civil union regardless of sexual orientation and then have a traditional religion-based marriage afterwards if they so choose to.
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CeLL
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:59 pm |
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strangelove wrote: What I don't understand is why the government would even give any rights to married couples. Long ago, marriage and child baring went hand in hand. If a couple married one another, had a kid, that was once viewed as the future of our nation. It carried an aura of nationalism.its perfectly understandable. Now all you have to do is have 5 kids and not know who the fathers are and you get free money and food. While people like myself who work and support a family of four makes about 100 dollars a month too much to receive any help. Good thing I have what little benefits the government offers.
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strangelove
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:25 pm |
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CeLL wrote: strangelove wrote: What I don't understand is why the government would even give any rights to married couples. Long ago, marriage and child baring went hand in hand. If a couple married one another, had a kid, that was once viewed as the future of our nation. It carried an aura of nationalism.its perfectly understandable. Now all you have to do is have 5 kids and not know who the fathers are and you get free money and food. While people like myself who work and support a family of four makes about 100 dollars a month too much to receive any help. Good thing I have what little benefits the government offers. I understand the logic and the need for the rights, but what I meant to say was if marriage is indeed considered a religious ceremony, and the reason why gay marriage isn't allowed (sanctity of marriage and whatnot), then there is no place for marriage in government. For every childless homosexual couple living without these privileges, there is a childless heterosexual couple enjoying the benefits that come with a marriage contract.
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XMoshe
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:52 pm |
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Never thought it would make it to 5 pages lol...I did see enough derailed replies and somewhat flaming in just the last page.
Anyway, I find that gays should have to chance to marry. Who are we to forbid others from getting the joy of marriage (or burden, which ever way you look at marriage lol). Everyone is entitled to their own choice. Ofcourse I also find that people can disagree with me and gay marriage but just don't force it onto others.
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TheDrop
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:33 pm |
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McLovin1t wrote: UnbeatableDevil wrote: I find it funny how heroo gave his opinion, in a thread that was asking his opinion, and all other uber liberal smartasses (no names tho!)  Only problem with this is that the opinion bordered on bigotry/retardation. the thought that heroo's opinion is bigotry etc. is your opinion..and the OP is asking for opinions on gay marriage, which heroo said..not opinions on the opinions of other people. 
_________________ let it gooooo let it gooooOoOooOOOOOO
Let her suck my pistol She open up her mouth and then I blow her brains out
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strangelove
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:17 pm |
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UnbeatableDevil wrote: McLovin1t wrote: UnbeatableDevil wrote: I find it funny how heroo gave his opinion, in a thread that was asking his opinion, and all other uber liberal smartasses (no names tho!)  Only problem with this is that the opinion bordered on bigotry/retardation. the thought that heroo's opinion is bigotry etc. is your opinion..and the OP is asking for opinions on gay marriage, which heroo said..not opinions on the opinions of other people.  At first I thought you were anti-intellectual, but now I realize you're just pro-idiocy.
heroo initiated the conversation when he asked if gay couples should be allowed to adopt. That's an open-ended question, not an opinion.
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Doron
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:02 pm |
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No.
Let me explain:
Men have hit their experation date once they hit 50.
Now, the other day I was sitting in the bus on my way home, and this like, ancient straight couple were sitting in front of me were feeding eachother patato chips like they were just dating for 6 months or something.
Now, I kinda thought that was cute.
But even as a gay guy, I DO NOT WANT to see two old guys getting cute on the bus. Ew OMG just... NO.
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0l3n
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:06 pm |
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Doron wrote: No.
Let me explain:
Men have hit their experation date once they hit 50.
Now, the other day I was sitting in the bus on my way home, and this like, ancient straight couple were sitting in front of me were feeding eachother patato chips like they were just dating for 6 months or something.
Now, I kinda thought that was cute.
But even as a gay guy, I DO NOT WANT to see two old guys getting cute on the bus. Ew OMG just... NO. So when you get old your going straight?
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dom
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Post subject: Re: do you approve gay marriage Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:57 pm |
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Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9967 Location: västkustskt
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Infograph to save everyone time
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