Legalize all drugs? (not just teh pot, the "hard" drugs too)

[SD]Master_Wong · **Posted:** Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:11 am

Toasty wrote:

Why not legalize murder and terrorism while we're at it..?

Why do you think so many people drink alcohol?

why do you think the countrys with the higher age limits on booze have a bigger problem with it? its the mentality if you can drink at 16 its not a big thing no more but if you drink at 16 when the age limit is 18 or 21 then you suddenly feel like your a rebel

same would apply to weed imo

Gladiator_RN · **Posted:** Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:06 pm

Yeah make it legal...

you know what? lets give special drug education on highschools, to teach them how to use it.

Barotix · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 9250 **Location:** Sand

jyushinshuu wrote:

Should we legalize killing as well? cuz we need less population to save our planet?

Murder violates an individual's right to life or property rights as one is their own property. One cannot make murder "legal." Nice try though.

On the subject of legalizing all drugs. Look at prohibition. Now look at the war on drugs. How does one not see the parallels? The war on drugs is a waste of resources and a violation of rights. You want to eliminate drug related crimes? Make drugs legal, tax them, and put the money towards rehabilitation.

McLovin1t wrote:

Instead of just giving up on them (which would lead to in fact more people doing drugs which leads to more people dieing in crimes and from the drug effects, which I hope outweighs costs) how about we actually bump up policies instead?

How can you even make the argument that legalizing drugs makes crime rates go up? Crime rates have gone up because of the war on drugs, not in spite of it. Prohibition has failed time and time again, it has done nothing but raise crime rates, and create non-violent criminals out of junkies.

Marijuana arrest account for more than half of the "crimes" http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Crime

Do you honestly think organized drug cartels would still exist after the war on drugs? Because the organized moonshine smugglers have persisted through the 21st century, amirite! :roll:

Toasty · **Joined:** Feb 2007 **Posts:** 2568 **Location:**

So lets make drugs legal.. then tell everyone how they are bad when people start using them.

Toasty · **Joined:** Feb 2007 **Posts:** 2568 **Location:**

Barotix wrote:

Do you honestly think organized drug cartels would still exist after the war on drugs? Because the organized moonshine smugglers have persisted through the 21st century, amirite! :roll:

They would do something else to make money.

You think they would all go get some typical 9-5 jobs?

Barotix · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 9250 **Location:** Sand

Toasty wrote:

So lets make drugs legal.. then tell everyone how they are bad when people start using them.

We do it with nicotine and alcohol. :wink:

Toasty · **Joined:** Feb 2007 **Posts:** 2568 **Location:**

Barotix wrote:

Toasty wrote:

So lets make drugs legal.. then tell everyone how they are bad when people start using them.

We do it with nicotine and alcohol.

We didnt make them legal because they were never illegal.

Barotix · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 9250 **Location:** Sand

Toasty wrote:

Barotix wrote:

Toasty wrote:

So lets make drugs legal.. then tell everyone how they are bad when people start using them.

We do it with nicotine and alcohol.

We didnt make them legal because they were never illegal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibitio ... ted_States

The first red spikes coincides with alcohol prohibition. You are correct about nicotine but the Legislature would love to make it illegal as well due to public health issues.

Macsnow · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 1243 **Location:** Chair.

Hapjap wrote:

Macsnow wrote:

Stupid idea, if you ask me. If it's costing too much to keep them in jail, kill them, they are there for a reason; they are a danger to not only themselves, but to others as well.

I for one wouldn't want crack heads running free and about, putting my own safety on the line (addicts will do anything to keep getting their dose, this includes taking anothers life).

I live in a country that see's these assholes rob and steal from innocent people. Getting stabbed for not giving them your phone, or a dollars worth cash; taking from anyone and everyone... me and my friends actually got jumped with tear gas by what seemed like a bunch of 15 year olds, they didn't even get anything from us.

Why let them roam free? If they decided to consume in the first place, then let them now face the consequences, it's not like they didn't know unprescripted drugs were a bad thing.

the point is these people are sick, addicted to these drugs. would you rather kill a sick person than treat him? there are proven ways to get off drug addictions and treat them. they wouldn't have to kill, to rob and steal for their addictions if someone would help them. this treatment is NOT available to them by keeping them in prisons. it costs less to treat then to keep in prisons, so why not?

Theres a big difference between "there being treatment for it" and "THEM WANTED TO BE TREATED FOR IT".

I think your point of view is naive, the world isn't perfect and neither are we; so you can't just assume people would get treated and get better just like that, they've got to be willing (which I doubt they are). Also, ever heard of falling back into relapse? When you add up treatment #1 -> fall back into drugs -> treatment #2... etc, that would probably end up costing more then keeping them in prison.

Not to mention the whole safety issue of other non involved people (already mentioned several times in the thread), that seems to have sliped past your sight...

Barotix · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 9250 **Location:** Sand

Toasty wrote:

You think they would all go get some typical 9-5 jobs?

Do you think drug cartels can compete with legal drug providers (e.g., big tobacco)? Gee, I wonder if I should get my alcohol from the 7/11 or from the moonshine dealer on the dirt road who might kill me. And if he doesn't kill me his moonshine sure as hell will. We need to stop treating drug use like a crime and consider it a public health concern.

BuDo · **Joined:** Dec 2008 **Posts:** 4714 **Location:**

EvGa wrote:

Legalize and educate. Yes.

A retarded response...You can't hope to educate people who are on drugs (or might be on drugs)...unless you meant children who haven't started taking drugs yet...which is also a lot cause when they start taking drugs and will soon forget all that was taught to them...

Legalizing all drugs is like opening the flood gates it's hard to stop most people (even children) from wanting to do it since it was already something that society has been trying to keep on lid on all this time.

Barotix · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 9250 **Location:** Sand

BuDo wrote:

EvGa wrote:

Legalize and educate. Yes.

A retarded response...You can't hope to educate people who are on drugs...unless you meant children who haven't started taking drugs yet...which is also a lot cause when they start taking drugs and will soon forget all that was taught to them...

Legalizing all drugs is like opening to flood gates it's hard to stop most people (even children) from wanting to do it since it was already something that society has been trying to keep on lid on all this time.

Because the war on drugs has been such a huge success.

BuDo · **Joined:** Dec 2008 **Posts:** 4714 **Location:**

Never said it was a success but it is the lesser of the two evils... I'm sure you can predict the ramifications of just making all drugs now legal..

inky · **Joined:** Nov 2006 **Posts:** 4025 **Location:**

Just leave it as it is. It would've been great if pot was legal so I wouldn't have to worry about people asking me to pee into a cup. Not that I even smoked weed that much anyway. It's been years since I've done it, mainly because of my college major. An addict's an addict - it's a lot easier to score some blow if he/she wanted to; legalizing it only makes it more convenient for people who normally wouldn't go through the trouble of finding a dealer.

All in all, I really don't give a crap. Your body, your decisions. As long as you don't drive that fucking truck on the wrong side of the highway while you're coked out of your mind, I doubt most people would care.

As far as alcohol and cigarettes go...WHEEEEEE!!!!! I'm gonna go drinking tonight! =)
Getting a bottle of:

Toasty · **Joined:** Feb 2007 **Posts:** 2568 **Location:**

Barotix wrote:

Toasty wrote:

You think they would all go get some typical 9-5 jobs?

Do you think drug cartels can compete with legal drug providers (e.g., big tobacco)? Gee, I wonder if I should get my alcohol from the 7/11 or from the moonshine dealer on the dirt road who might kill me. And if he doesn't kill me his moonshine sure as hell will. We need to stop treating drug use like a crime and consider it a public health concern.

I didnt mean that.

I meant they would resort to some other organized crime.

(about the drink being illegal. i stand corrected. i dont know much of american history).

*BlackFox · **Joined:** Sep 2008 **Posts:** 7923 **Location:**

Quote:

Legalize all drugs?

Well, I'm sorry, there's Just no Farking way!
Seriously, Legalizing all drugs is not the way to end the war on drugs.

PimpinHoez · **Joined:** Jan 2011 **Posts:** 12 **Location:** GA

go do some crack or meth then tell me they should be legalized. as for marijuana....LEGALIZE IT

EvGa · **Joined:** Apr 2008 **Posts:** 2612 **Location:** Texas

BuDo wrote:

EvGa wrote:

Legalize and educate. Yes.

A retarded response...You can't hope to educate people who are on drugs (or might be on drugs)...unless you meant children who haven't started taking drugs yet...which is also a lot cause when they start taking drugs and will soon forget all that was taught to them...

Legalizing all drugs is like opening the flood gates it's hard to stop most people (even children) from wanting to do it since it was already something that society has been trying to keep on lid on all this time.

Face Farking palm.

cpinney · **Posted:** Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:13 pm

BuDo wrote:

EvGa wrote:

Legalize and educate. Yes.

A retarded response...You can't hope to educate people who are on drugs (or might be on drugs)...unless you meant children who haven't started taking drugs yet...which is also a lot cause when they start taking drugs and will soon forget all that was taught to them...

Legalizing all drugs is like opening the flood gates it's hard to stop most people (even children) from wanting to do it since it was already something that society has been trying to keep on lid on all this time.

STOP IT, LOOK WHAT YOU HAVE DONE THE CHILDREN CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!

heroo · **Joined:** Sep 2006 **Posts:** 6618 **Location:**

why is everyone blind to reality? all those comments about everyone starting drugs if we legalize it are bullsh!t. like I said, look at Holland.

[SD]Master_Wong · **Posted:** Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:48 pm

after some thought he does have a point but at the end of the day controled and legalised may have added benefit ass there would be no point to drug catels which by there very nature are built up of quite evil people (higher up that is, dealers can just be people after a quick bit of cash or something) But in saying this making it legal adds problems such as its more wide spread availible meaning kids who normally wouldnt be able to get hold of the higher class of drugs can this presents quite a problem education will only inform people not stop them banning it adds an extra thrill to taking it the risk factor of doing something illegal controling it and taxxing could have more benefit but you need to consider the bigger picture of how it effects us i mean alchol should be banned for what it does to you, **** should be banned too but both right now wont due to the tax there are so many problems associated with both sides of this

so in conclusion its prolly better to stick with the evil we know and continue to fight it hoping in the long run to stem it from society

also heroo holland only allows weed iv already said id stand behind that been legalised its less damaging then alcohol!!

MrTwilliger · **Joined:** May 2008 **Posts:** 1374 **Location:** Hiding

EvGa wrote:

My goal with education would not be to stop people from using drugs. It would simply be to present the facts and let them choose for themselves. I don't have anything against people using. It's their choice, not mine, not anyone's.

I don't see any viable options for stopping the use of drugs nor do I want there to be. However, I think an educated populace would lead to less abuse. Throwing people in jail obviously doesn't work.

Personally, I think you give people way too much credit. Maybe it's all a bit backward where I'm from, but the folk 'round my parts are dumb as all hell, beyond belief really. I wouldn't even trust them filling my car up with gas in the morning, I'm sure they'd find some how to stuff that up as well. Drug education? Hell, these people need a level of education past the 3rd grade before they move onto drug education :palm:

But seriously, whilst education is a step in the right direction, it opens up a greater issue with the education system in general. We had drug education back in high school in our PDPHE class. It was mandatory so no one could avoid it. Whilst I personally got a lot out of it and increased my knowledge in regards to what effects particular drugs had on me, the majority of people didn't care. They were too busy talking, playing on their phones, drawing on paper, throwing shit out the windows etc etc etc. And the result? I've watched these people grow up to be deadshits, abusing alcohol and drugs, getting into fights and some people have even gotten themselves killed from driving under the influence of drugs. Without a reformed education system, the education itself will be pointless.

PimpinHoez · **Joined:** Jan 2011 **Posts:** 12 **Location:** GA

holland allows extacy and mushrooms I believe...not sure tho

also you cant really compare holland and other legal areas to the states, views on narcotics are too different and will be impossible to change...no drugs will ever, ever become legal except weed and honestly, that's the way it should be. To legalize all drugs is an extremely liberal approach to solving this problem, and doesnt make sense if u think about it. The cartels will remain in effect even if every drug is legalized. They will just find more farked up ways to make money like sex trade, illegal smuggling of immigrants, passport forgery, selling organs, selling the "legal" hard drugs at an incredibly low price as they make close around 90% profit manufacturing cocaine why not sell it cheaper than the government would?

Rehab clinics would be over-flooding with crackheads instead of prisons, thousands of police officers would loose their job, thousands of government workers would loose their job, THINK OF ALL THE PEOPLE WHO WOULD LOOSE JOBS, it would **** up our entire legal system.

And prosecution of hard drugs is harsh and is becoming more so....they ARE making progress stoping people from selling crack for example because every rock holds a huge weight in court and 10 years for poss of crack is being handed out like candy. Crack used to not hold nearly as long of a sentence as it does today. In Atlanta Ive seen pretty impressive numbers about distribution of cocaine over the past 6 years, and from my experience, that shit is harder to get than it used to be!

PS. "educating" children on drugs is bullsh1t and will never work. that sort of propaganda has failed since the Reagan administration's "just say no." First-hand experience, jail time, and personal decisions is the only way to learn and mature. The people saying LEGALIZE EVERYTHING WTF BLAH are the ones who need to be educated

NuclearSilo · **Posted:** Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:56 pm

kk, and people will start secretly putting drugs food, drinks so they attract you to their restaurant
guys will secretly put a sleeping pill in the drinks and rape a random girl in the bar
whore will put addict drug on her pussy to attract men
those who commit a crime will make an excuse it's because of the drug and he didn't do it on purpose
etc...

There are so many thing people could do if they possess all the drugs.

Joymax will legalize botting so they don't have to waste energy and resource on the war of bot, and everyone will be happy.

Education is not enough. There are people who will do anything, sacrifice anything just to get rich. Most of the drug doesn't give anything good but bad. Some people harm their own body with drugs and they don't give a shit about it.

Ask those who experienced, not those who daydream for utopia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOPOK24g9Cc

Does it contribute to the civilization of humans? No
Does it contribute to science development and knowledge? No
Does it help people to be a good person? No
Does it contribute for a better environment? No
Does it produce food? No

McLovin1t · **Joined:** Apr 2008 **Posts:** 1825 **Location:**

Heroo you must be a complete retard to compare Holland's education and drug views with that of the US for instance. That last comment hammers down the idea that you truly have no idea about public policy, and that COUNTRIES ARE DIFFERENT. In the US legalization would lead to more drugs being done, as I can pull up statistics of how deterrence works (about 29% more in Australia when legalized). The prohibition argument is old and pretty much irrelevant.

And to Silo, very true, additionally legalization really provides absolutely 0 benefits. The non uniqueness argument saying people will still do it is retarded. Should we legalize assault, because people always do it, and it's a waste of money to hold prisoners in jail? Also @ Barotix, cartels would still very much exist for a few main reasons. I have posted this argument on here too a while back and it went un refuted successfully.
1. Cartels main drug isn't pot (duh?)
2. Cartels aren't in this business only for money, social status is a huge factor. If you honestly believe that legalization will cause cartels to shrivel away and never sell again you have no idea about the machinations of drug cartels in America.
3. Cartels would effectively undercut the "heavily taxed & regulated" government product, and due to the extreme amounts of off the books selling, more and more problems would be there because the government wouldn't punish offenders.

Hapjap · **Posted:** Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:51 pm

NuclearSilo wrote:

kk, and people will start secretly putting drugs food, drinks so they attract you to their restaurant
guys will secretly put a sleeping pill in the drinks and rape a random girl in the bar
whore will put addict drug on her pussy to attract men
those who commit a crime will make an excuse it's because of the drug and he didn't do it on purpose
etc...

There are so many thing people could do if they possess all the drugs.

Joymax will legalize botting so they don't have to waste energy and resource on the war of bot, and everyone will be happy.

Education is not enough. There are people who will do anything, sacrifice
anything just to get rich. Most of the drug doesn't give anything good but bad. Some people harm their own body with drugs and they don't give a shit about it.

Ask those who experienced, not those who daydream for utopia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOPOK24g9Cc

Does it contribute to the civilization of humans? No
Does it contribute to science development and knowledge? No
Does it help people to be a good person? No
Does it contribute for a better environment? No
Does it produce food? No

bad aruguments.

legalization =/= no regulation
there are shitloads of potentionally harmful substances out there, DOES NOT mean companies can just put it in food and sell LOL. do you know what the FDA is?

How can you possible say drugs do not contribute to society and science development? They shows us so much about how physical the human mind is. How easily it can be effected/changed/manipulated. Some of these chemicals are naturally found in our brains anyways. There is even research that small doses of chemicals derived from cocaine and heroin can IMPROVE patients with various brain development problems and cancers.

Your video only proves my point. People addicted to heroin and other drugs should not be arrested, but treated. These treatments can only improve if these narcotics became legal. Doctors and researchers can then experiment with them to further understand how they work, and break addictions.

McLovin1t wrote:

Should we legalize assault, because people always do it, and it's a waste of money to hold prisoners in jail?

Lol? This is nothing like assault. Drug addiction is something that can be treated and people should be allowed access treatment, not locked up. Until they actually harm someone else they should not be in jail, just for the fact that they happen to possess narcotics.

I don't advocate legalization so people can abuse drugs recreationally, so please read before the argument before posting stupid comments.

Hapjap · **Posted:** Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:16 pm

Macsnow wrote:

Theres a big difference between "there being treatment for it" and "THEM WANTED TO BE TREATED FOR IT".

I think your point of view is naive, the world isn't perfect and neither are we; so you can't just assume people would get treated and get better just like that, they've got to be willing (which I doubt they are). Also, ever heard of falling back into relapse? When you add up treatment #1 -> fall back into drugs -> treatment #2... etc, that would probably end up costing more then keeping them in prison.

Not to mention the whole safety issue of other non involved people (already mentioned several times in the thread), that seems to have sliped past your sight...

I'm not saying everyone is going to want to treatment. The point is they are being denied the right to even attempt treatment. I completely agree if a person harms another they should be in jail. However, over 90% of drug related arrests are NON VIOLENT. Why? Because law dictates that just possessing drugs= jail time. The people who are not violent do not even get a chance at treatment, instead they are locked up and costs tax payers billions each year.

Relapse is a result of underdeveloped programs for some drugs. If we legalize we could actually research the drug and learn how to break dependence from it.

[SD]Master_Wong · **Posted:** Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:21 pm

Hapjap wrote:

Macsnow wrote:

Theres a big difference between "there being treatment for it" and "THEM WANTED TO BE TREATED FOR IT".

I think your point of view is naive, the world isn't perfect and neither are we; so you can't just assume people would get treated and get better just like that, they've got to be willing (which I doubt they are). Also, ever heard of falling back into relapse? When you add up treatment #1 -> fall back into drugs -> treatment #2... etc, that would probably end up costing more then keeping them in prison.

Not to mention the whole safety issue of other non involved people (already mentioned several times in the thread), that seems to have sliped past your sight...

I'm not saying everyone is going to want to treatment. The point is they are being denied the right to even attempt treatment. I completely agree if a person harms another they should be in jail. However, over 40% of drug related arrests are NON VIOLENT. The people who are not violent do not even get a chance at treatment, instead they are locked up and costs tax payers billions each year.

Relapse is a result of underdeveloped programs for some drugs. If we legalize we could actually research the drug and learn how to break dependence from it.

over 40% is a shit stat you know it means less then 60% are violent!!!!

look iv said my bit here read what others have said legalising it sounds better on paper then in real life, smoking and drinking are bad for you but we all do it, if heroine is legal people will do it no matter what you say but on the other hand having it legal would hopfully make it safer as your more likly to know whats in it and guys cartels will be hit harder, if you want something your going to get the one you know is safe rather then the one that was cut with powdered glass or something (powdered glass think i got from somewhere i think they sprayed it on weed plants to make it heavier so it sells for more)

Hapjap · **Posted:** Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:26 pm

[SD]Master_Wong wrote:

Hapjap wrote:

Macsnow wrote:

Theres a big difference between "there being treatment for it" and "THEM WANTED TO BE TREATED FOR IT".

I think your point of view is naive, the world isn't perfect and neither are we; so you can't just assume people would get treated and get better just like that, they've got to be willing (which I doubt they are). Also, ever heard of falling back into relapse? When you add up treatment #1 -> fall back into drugs -> treatment #2... etc, that would probably end up costing more then keeping them in prison.

Not to mention the whole safety issue of other non involved people (already mentioned several times in the thread), that seems to have sliped past your sight...

I'm not saying everyone is going to want to treatment. The point is they are being denied the right to even attempt treatment. I completely agree if a person harms another they should be in jail. However, over 40% of drug related arrests are NON VIOLENT. The people who are not violent do not even get a chance at treatment, instead they are locked up and costs tax payers billions each year.

Relapse is a result of underdeveloped programs for some drugs. If we legalize we could actually research the drug and learn how to break dependence from it.

over 40% is a shit stat you know it means less then 60% are violent!!!!

look iv said my bit here read what others have said legalising it sounds better on paper then in real life, smoking and drinking are bad for you but we all do it, if heroine is legal people will do it no matter what you say but on the other hand having it legal would hopfully make it safer as your more likly to know whats in it and guys cartels will be hit harder, if you want something your going to get the one you know is safe rather then the one that was cut with powdered glass or something (powdered glass think i got from somewhere i think they sprayed it on weed plants to make it heavier so it sells for more)

Whatever % it was doesn't even matter. The fact is people who want/ need help and did nothing else but possess drugs are being arrested.

NuclearSilo · **Posted:** Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:38 pm

Hapjap wrote:

bad aruguments.

legalization =/= no regulation
there are shitloads of potentionally harmful substances out there, DOES NOT mean companies can just put it in food and sell LOL. do you know what the FDA is?
So? Human are selfish. Some people would do anything to get rich. In US the policy might be stricter, yeah. But in some poorer country, people gone wild, the gov gone nuts.
Wow, the Israel at war, + drugs => chaos?
Wow, drug in the hands of turk kids

How can you possible say drugs do not contribute to society and science development? They shows us so much about how physical the human mind is. How easily it can be effected/changed/manipulated. Some of these chemicals are naturally found in our brains anyways. There is even research that small doses of chemicals derived from cocaine and heroin can IMPROVE patients with various brain development problems and cancers.

Your video only proves my point. People addicted to heroin and other drugs should not be arrested, but treated. These treatments can only improve if these narcotics became legal. Doctors and researchers can then experiment with them to further understand how they work, and break addictions.
Did you just say that we should become mouses like white mouses used in experiments so we can sacrifice our body to contribute to science. Did you know how many mouses sacrificed in each project? Nope you never thought about it.

McLovin1t wrote:

Should we legalize assault, because people always do it, and it's a waste of money to hold prisoners in jail?

Lol? This is nothing like assault. Drug addiction is something that can be treated and people should be allowed access treatment, not locked up. Until they actually harm someone else they should not be in jail, just for the fact that they happen to possess narcotics.
Right, 'until' which is a very close future after people use drugs
The child and the kids are naive + drugs, they can't control their doing. Legalization will only offer the kids to have higher change to possess a drug.

I don't advocate legalization so people can abuse drugs recreationally, so please read before the argument before posting stupid comments.
Human are evil and greedy. What policy can you give to prevent people from "abusing"? What's the cost to maintain this policy?
In the world, everywhere, in every domain, there're always people who'd abuse just to get rich. You can't just talk in an utopia way like that.
Things don't just fall into order because 'you think' everyone will 'obey' the given laws like mindless robots

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