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ok... but he was correct, and I loved the way he explained it

satman=

Won't argue whether he's correct or not or he'll just get this thread locked.

how is he going to get the thread locked?
many others have expressed the same opinion, why arent they getting the thread locked?

Last time i had a debate with him on history, and I opposed him opinions then he kept calling me a retard etc because I used wikipedia and reference.com as source which are "unreliable compared to him"
then mods deleted the thread

oh ok, but please lets not let this take the same road, which is where you were leading it

what the ****?

...?

Fact: Vikings used to grow cabbage on greenland. Ever wonder why it's called greenland?

Greenland today?


It's natural. The earth goes through cycles, ice ages and "warmer" ages. Oh and the "zomg were going into an Iceage" is also bullshit. In Canada our winters and lasting until march/april because we don't get snow until the georgian bay freezes over. Since it freezes over near the end of December it takes a lot longer for it to melt. Eastern Canada's winters are longer because it's warmer.

You just ownd all the naysayers. Whether gw is talked up or it's just a natural thing (lol), in the end it's about taking care of our soil.

ps - Fuck o'reilly

Okay ppl lets clear things up...global warming is NOT the debate of whether the temperature of the earth is rising or staying the same.....the Debate is about the RATE of that change. yes we all know the earth goes through cycles that change temperature but problem today is that this process which is supposed to be happening over thousands of years is slowing down to hundreds and then down to tens....

Look at the chart...assuming you all aren't retarded it doesn't take a neurosurgeon to figure out what its telling us....





From the chart we can see what the problem is. This problem is only made worse by the fact that ppl like Satman refuse to acknowledge the information of the chart (which for the duration of this rant will be referred to as THE Chart). So instead of coming up with solutions the ppl of the world will continue to spoil the air this will only increase the RATE of the natural change of temperature until it reaches a point where it becomes UNnatural....at which point in time ppl like Satman will look out upon there flooding streets and continue to ignore the problem even as they row there boat to the office....

People need to realize global warming is here its queer GET USED TO IT...or rather not, just realize it does indeed exist and to deny it is like staring at the sun and ignoring the fact that its burning your eyes out....


wake up ppl THE Chart doesn't lie

ty xemmas
ownt again

I don't beleive in global warming...however....



I agree on that, when I walk through a park near my house and all I see is trash, yet there are trash bins all around...I mean, come on...

That the chart shows 0,000,000,160 years of the earth's 4,500,000,000 year history? 0.000000035%

The way I see it: Everyone should do their part to protect the planet. Recycling, putting their trash in the trash can, etc. What should not be done, is the spending of billions on a natural phenomenon. People come before trees, the money should go to feed the kids of single moms and starving africans.

ok since you want to play hardball im gonna throw another chart at you....i'll even spell out what you should be able to interpret from it...keep in mind while this chart is important it's not nearly as important as THE Chart....




Theres this graph stretches over 2000 years....since Dom was to big of a prick to just listen blindly to THE Chart maybe this one will shut him up....

as you can easily tell every things going fine and steady we even have a warm period where even without the threat of industry all around them it gets a little hotter...but of course it steadily cools down and goes back to norm until we hit the 19th century (the 1800's for those to dumb to know what the 19th century is) which is oddly the time of the INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION all of a sudden when mankind starts making lots of factories and pumping out lots and lots of pullution the temperature skyrockets....its not a steady up like the medieval warming its practically a vertical cliff....the evidence is is staggering at this point but i could go on....and i will because Dom might come back with another smart ass retort so he can go at home and sleep comfortable living in a land of dreams where the greenhouse effect doesn't exist and his thought on global warming are relevant to THE Chart......

0,000,002,000 of 3,500,000,000 = 0.0000057%

By the way... Part of the reason why the industrial revolution happened is because the weather warmed up naturally. In Europe, since they went through a mini ice age, the population did not grow so much, and sons replaced their fathers or became clerics. With farmers able to sustain their families better, due to better harvests from the warm weather, sons were forced to flock to the cities and begin the industrial revolution.

What brings stability to temperature, is bodies of water - more notably frozen bodies. Once those warm up or melt, it takes less energy to raise the global temperature and acceleration occurs. Sort of like how ice in your hand is cold while it's hard, and as soon as it begins to melt a little it seems to disappear almost instantly.

Oh by the way...It's funny how the thermometre was invented at the same exact time as your graph begins to show global warming...1612 Santorio Santorio

Oh, and on a final note for this post: I suggest people don't just blindly believe in global warming, or disbelieve in it because of what they've been told. It's best to learn about it, become aware, and form your own convictions. That's the problem with a lot of things today...politics, global warming, and religion. The three biggest blind conflicts.

i love your math skillz but that doesn't take away from the information that THE Chart gives out even at the earths earliest stages of devolpment great rising in temp have been do to excessive amounts of gases pumped out from the earths core....stop dancing around the issue telling me my chart doesn't matter cause its not spread out enough doesn't change the fact that for clearly 1800 years we see a fairly lvl temperature and only in 200 do we see a HUGE spike blame it on whatever you want but the medieval warmth was a natural change in temp whats going on now is something totally different

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_revolution


you can go look at the causes for the industrial revolution and you'll see it had ALOT more to do with various increases in technology and change in social climate than due to a change in actual climate....i appluad your brillant attempt to deny evidence thats staring you in the face yet again....you could make a great politician someday or maybe a lawyer...but of course by then you'll be wearing your diving suit to work just like the rest of the world.....

There are a lot of causes for the industrial revolution. Most advances come through necessities. Without the huge work force coming up from better nutrition (sort of like in China today) the industrial would of never happened. You don't need to make a 1,000 pair of shoes a day when you have a steady population that does not require anything but to replace what they already have.

Also, I was not critical about the chart. I am critical about the fact that the earth has warmed up, and cooled down before. Without real statistics showing how warm it has become (with the exception of the 0.0000057% of the Earth's history you were able to dig up, 3/4ths based off estimations) there is no way to determine whether or not it is natural.

As I said before, I believe it's important to become more environmentally responsible, but governments should not be investing billions of dollars into planting trees when there's people living outside starving every day, or with millions of orphan's in Africa.

What would be wise, something that even the most convinced global-warming enthusiasts have to agree on: With the majority of the worlds population living in countries that are still building up their industries, the best thing to do would help them and assure that they do not make the same environmental choices we have. Otherwise, the impact the western world has on the environment will be nothing compared to humanity.

Oh, and just for shits and giggles, this is my faculty at university:
http://www.fes.uwaterloo.ca/

I like to be contrary in most situations, if someone is like "Global warming doesn't exist" then I'll say "You're an idiot, [rant rant rant]".
If someone says "Global warming is killing us all!" I'll say "You're an idiot, [different rant, different rant, different rant]".

This is what I actually believe though:

The earth has warming and cooling phases which occur. Despite popular belief, it is not natural.
The reason the earth warms is because of cows farting and shitting everywhere (one example). Gases are released vis r vis different animals and fires caused by mining and stuff.
People recently have been releasing more of these gases which heat the world, though people are like "omfg tis iz nawt naturall", it is, if you consider cows farting natural.
This is why I don't like people who are like "omfg we muzt zave teh womendawgz of teh world for tehy r ding nd tis iz nawt naturall". Well, it is, ok? Just because humans do something doesn't mean it's not natural. We're animals, and shit happens in nature, and we're a part of it, and we've always been a part of it, and we're always gonna be a part of nature.

If your IQ is above 50, then you'll realize I've been slightly contrary. I've said something is not natural, but then later I claim that it is. It's just because when I talk I tend to conform to societies standards, aka: Animals are natural.
Technically, in my mind, they are not. But I am a literallist (spelling?).

So, gases are at an all time high, this is not necessarily a bad thing though. Some species are going to die because of this, but this is the way of the world. If you cannot adapt, you will die.
Now, this is why I believe global warming to be bad. If certain animals die, our food source will go down and stuff. This isn't going to be an issue for at least another 50~ish years. This is [b]not[b] due to the fact global warming has killed so many species, well, not entirely. It is more due to the fact that there are so many people on the earth.

If your IQ is above 90, then you will think I've been contrary. But if your IQ is above 120, you'll realize I haven't been. At least not in the above section.

Anyways, when the earth heats up, the earth will automatically send itself into a cooling phase because currents are going to change and water levels. Water is the base of the earth (not really, but figuratively yes). When water changes, even in the slightest, the whole world will change. Water also tends to work on an inverse scale. If something heats, another will cool. Thus, though water "heats", the water also gets cooler on the bottom, and eventually the difference is nulled, and an ice age comes about us.

Sorry if that makes little sense, but my sister is loud and it's hard to think.

Anyways, this is one thing that is potentially bad: If the world heats up too much, too quickly, the water will get too hot, and when the difference is nulled, it will not be significant enough to launch an ice age.

The world is heating up very very fast, but it still isn't fast enough to cause the world to skip an ice age, so we have nothing to worry about for about 2k years.

Kk, those are my thoughts. Gonna put ceran wrap on the toilet so my dad is gonna shit all over his butt

the Gov't waste billions of dollars ever year we're wasteing billions of dollars every week on this current war in iraq...i don't think its going to cost that much money to just pass a bill limiting the amount of pollution the industry out-puts...i know they've done it before they just need to do it so that it makes a difference instead of just doing it to say they did something....

and yes we all know the earth heats and cools periodically as i said before im not denying this cycle but science has proven and i'll dig up the chart when i find it , that massive temperature changes aren't an overnight, over decade, or over century type of thing unless there is a powerful outside force involved....

This is why there's no true leftist parties in power anywhere in the western world. If you do that, your industries will leave (permitted of course, thanks to NAFTA and the European Union).

Your government will not have any source of income coming from those industries, whether it be loans from the national banks or revenue taxes. Futhermore, millions of people would lose their jobs, resulting in the need for more social programs (and higher taxes for the middle class, if you tax the rich class they will also move) The middle class will turn into the lower class, without that division the rich get richer. With that done, there's no revenue going to the government for environmental protection, and the social programs are very lacking. So, in the end, the middle class disappears, the unemployment rate skyrockets, the governments treasury goes empty, the governement is forced to spend less in education, environmental protection, and health. More into financial aid programs, which will not bring any money to the economy. The economy, already at an almost dead stop because there's no rolling interest from national loans.

In short, penalizing companies for feeding and housing your population would be the end of the United States. The problem with Iraq is not the war, but the way it's being managed. Many countries, such as Canada, are profiting from the war. Your country borrows money, and the interests helps the other western countries catch up - for a social-environmentalist that would mean that the war is good news, and for the liberal-economist bad news.

What needs to be done, first and foremost, is the globalization of efforts on all international subjects (aids, pollution, free trade). Companies should all be taxed for pollution, but credited for compliance. The government making up for the lost revenue due to environmental compliance is the only way to make the industries stay, and keep the population happy. But where will it take this money?

That's the problem with all the economic theories: whether it be Adam Smith, Karl Marx, David Ricardo, Jean-Baptiste Say, Leon Walras, Alfred Marshall, Keynes, Von Hayek, Friedman, even the socialist hero - Patrella. That's the problem with economy and liberty. The only way to completely cut pollution is for people to give up modern life, and return to the way we lived before civilization.

Currently, the solution is simple for politians. You have a 4 year mandate, and a possible 8. You take the side of the opressed, the opposite of your predecessor. And to manage to get to your second mandate, you have to be very conservative with your first one. This leads to short term political decisions, nothing progressive. Look at every president or prime minister, that is the case to a certain extent.

i know i brought this on myself by responding to anything you said about the Gov't...but this is still about global warming....not capitalism and its short comings...*backs away slowly*

That is ignorant. Unlike religion and state, economy and politics are not seperated. In every country, economy is politics and politics are economy. That is where most environmentalists fail - they don't have the background or understanding other then the effects of melting ice. They don't realise the repercussions any sort of global change has on the entire world and all of it's facets. Environment is important, but humans are much more important.

My faculty is environmental studies. My first two classes morning next session are macroeconomics in the morning followed by microeconomics in the afternoon on mondays and wednesdays. They go hand in hand.

without the current environment humans would cease to exist....your ignorance is as bad as mine. You think your looking at a bigger picture when really your just becoming a victim of bureaucracy. Caught up in the sections and guidelines that have turned a simple process into something huge and needlessly complicated....if the whole world passed these environmental laws then where would companies who wouldn't want to comply take there business....

The earth was here long before we were...it'll be here long after we are...The earth doesn't have to live with us, we have to live with the earth. The earth didn't need any fixing up for ppl there was nothing wrong with it to begin with. So every Unnatural action we take against the planet only bring us further and further away from the prefect begining we once had. Im not saying man should live in the trees and eat bugs, i like my ipod, but im saying that ppl should stop thing that we have to change the earth to suit our needs because it suited our needs from the start and we've just been f*king it up ever since

How exactly are you going to get countries in civil war, infested with aids, spending all their international aid into military funding, and never developed an agricultural or communication infrastructure to pass these laws or make their industries abide by them?

Like I said in previous posts. You have to help industrialise these countries, and guide their growth. Not tell them what to do, and expect them to be ok (read: Iraq) Doing that will insure they don't pollute and cutting the potential global emissions of green house gases by an exponential amount. Investing in these countries is worth more then investing in planting trees: for the economy, for the people, for the environment.

By the way, bureaucracy is not a bad thing.

WTH are you republican o0. You can't go into countries and MAKE ppl do what you want. Iraq isn't about telling ppl what to do anyway its about stirring up enough trouble in the middle east so that theres not Gov't in place that can stop the western powers (both political, industrial, and economic) from claiming the resources (OIL) that the mid east has maintained an iron grip on....

If you want those people to modernize send them some f**king real food and some f**king real medicine. Create a Gov't there that gives out real jobs instead of having ppl work (mostly for western controlled industries) for .50 USD an hour...if they're lucky. WAKE UP DOM! The same people who have kept the world divided, who have kept nations in Africa and the Middle East in constant war, who control the money the jobs the medicine the power ARE THE SAME PPL WHO IGNORE GLOBAL WARMING! And you sit here with your everything will get better garbage buying into all that bulls**t they feed you about why they can't do anything about Darfur why they can't fix Iraq why they can't stop mining and selling blood diamonds why they can't stop the slave labor......

The people who are in control will not invest in those countries.....the people who call the shots know that investing in those countries will only make them stronger and more independent of Western Power....The people who are in control don't want you to start thing about WORLD safety or about a threat to the WORLD because it would mean uniting to many ppl.....

What the World needs now is something to gather around and come together on....an issue that they can agree is a threat to all of there lives and its a threat that can be defeated if only ppl worked together.....sadly the ppl in power know that working together would be the end of there power so they're doing everything they can to keep us divided

To dissect, you're all over the place.



First off, in our world you cannot claim ressources. Without a government, you can't exploit a country for them either. And if they maintained an iron grip on oil, then it's impossible to "stir up trouble". Of all the Arab countries, Iraq was far from being the main exporter to the US. If they wanted to do that, they would of taken a smaller country with a higher output, not Iraq.

The War in the middle east is a wave of neo-economic-colonialism. It's the same thing that happened in Korea or Vietnam.

Industry and Economy are the same thing, no need to mention both seperately.



Congrats and condensing what i've been saying in all my posts. Cut the funding to environment and invest in the development of countries.



Africa is at war because of the end of neo-colonialism. There are x reasons for the conflicts:

1) Colonial powers drew up their boundries without respecting ethnic or cultural differences. In places like Rwanda where you have farmers and nomads living on the same land, there is bound to be conflict.

2) The countries are too divided. Without them uniting they cannot compete with industrialised countries on the international market. They fight for land and ressources because that have nothing else to do, no industrial output.

3) Infrastructure was built by the colonial powers to ferry ressources from the heart of Africa towards its shores. Many of the countries are not linked up and cannot do any commerce.

4) It's too isolated. It only touches the iberic and arabic peninsulas. Unless it becomes self-sufficient it will always be in conflict.

Secondly, the Middle-East is not always at war. There are three conflicts. The first one being the Iraq war, with the United States. Hardly a war, it's a bunch of GIs babysitting towns. The second conflict would be in Afghanistan, which is justified and backed by the UN. And finally, there are Isralo-Palestinian conflicts; they date from before Jesus, and will never end. Socially, the middle east is going through what Europe went through in the XVIth century, religious wars. The different regions in the world are all at different phases of evolution. Each one is going through what another has gone through (Industrialisation in China, Religious Wars in the Middle East)


I've seen more global warming propaganda then anything else. No one is forcing this "bull" onto me, however you do seem to fit that bill.


1) Watch the news: in the past week or two UN has decided to impose itself in Darfur.

2) It's the African Warlords that are mining and selling blood diamonds.

3) You cannot force a country to stop slave labor, it's something that every country in the west has built itself up from. And, to go there and tell them to stop doing that is very arrogant, doing stuff like that is why Americans inherited a bad reputation.



This is where I question your knowledge about world issues and economics. The industries investing in other countries do not invest on behalf of their government. We have a neo-liberal economic system, all the investments are private, and all the revenue goes to the stock holders.



There is no world conspiracy, or anything of the sort. You sound like a 15 year old that is going through a rebellious phase. Before you argue about world issues make sure you understand their dynamics. People aren't trying to "stop people from uniting". This isn't Tzarist Russia.





K Marx, long live the proletariat. We already saw the outcome of that, the outcome of the October revolution.

Do I think we are Farking up our plant? Yes.
Do I think we are the cause of global warming? No.

WTF The news is the problem DOM the war IS a movement to Divide up the Middle east even further..to use it as an excuse for problems when they want to invaed Iraq which is coming soon and then what will you say...."this is clearly just another neo-colinization blah blah blah" You won't see the problem until its stares you in the f*king face and then precedes to rip it off and even then you'll have doubts about whether its heppening or not.

Who do you think has been keeping the nations of the world divided for the past 500 years....


Who are the warlords SELLING the f*king diamonds to DOM!. They are selling them to SURVEY SAYS ...WESTERN F*KING ARMS DEALERS
You think that PPL come first and YET you think its arrogant to tell a another country that its WRONG to have slavery....so then it must be OK by you to deny humans there basic liberites...not an american idea just the liberites of being a Freeman...THAT is wrong...hypocrititcal of the USA to do something like that yes but it is FAR from wrong...

UN impose in Darfur just like they imposed in F*KING Vietnam and Imposed in Iraq and Imposed in the Irsreal/Palestinian conflct and i LOVED how they IMPOSED in RWANDAN CRISIS.....F*K the UN they Don't DO SH*T.....its only purpose is to make ppl like you think that the world is united and working together to do a good job..and you buy into it.....

WESTERN GOV't IS RUN BY MONEY....YOU CAN PRETEND TO SEPERATE THE 2 BUT ANYONE WITH A BRAIN CAN SEE THAT...the people in offices of power are not poor ppl.....they are RICH PPL.....they are BUSINESS MEN FIRST AND POLITICIANS SECOND!!!!


ARE YOU COMPARING WORLD WIDE ENVIRONMENTAL LAWS TO MARXISM!!!!




WTF

I've never been so PISSED OFF AT A POST BEFORE.....THIS IS INSANE....THE WORLD WORLD IS GOIGN TO F*KING HELL AND ALL YOU CAN THINK ABOUT IS YOUR NEO-Proletarian COLONIZATION BULLS**T

vftgjgklasxcsdyfgjmtglkkgma,sgca,mglsmkflxgashogfxkslgjmdsf

YOU just made up a bunch of different words by putting NEO in front of IT.....STFU IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT ONLY NEOLIBERAL WORKS AND YOU USED THAT ONE OUT OF F*KING CONTEXT......

ARE YOU BLIND OR ARE YOU STUPID...YOUR ONE OF THOSE PPL WHO SIT AT HOME AND SAY "the war in Iraq is going swimmingly isn't it, hooray GWB you've done it again"

UNTIL WE IMPOSE MODERNIZATION ON PPL THERE CAN BE NO PROGRESS BUT IMPOSING OUR MODERNIZATION ON OTHER PPL IS ARROGANT...YOUR GOING IN CIRCLES YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT YOUR POINT IS ANYMORE...I SURE AS HELL DON'T


I QUIT DOM YOUR FARKING NEO-CONSERVATIVE-EMPIRIALIST-IGNORAMUS!!!!!!

What are you, stupid? Go to bed and reread your post in the morning. You'll want to edit it then.

EDIT THIS!


F**K YOU DOM


GO COMPARE NATURE LAWS TO MARXISM IN SOME OTHER THREAD!!!!!!