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That's what I mean. Matter of opinion.
What you just stated, is your opinion.
But there's always someone with another.

What you consider 'good' or 'the right thing', might be completely wrong in the eyes of another.
That goes for everything. There's no evil without any good.
Nothing excist without the complete opposite.
And what looks right in the eyes of one, might be wrong in the eyes of another.

Go back to the scene of the terrorist, and the soldier. Keep it simple.

The soldier fights against the terrorist.
The terrorist fights against the soldier.

Why?
Does the soldier fights because he wants to be evil?
Does the terrorist fights for what he thinks is the bad thing?
They both fight for what they think is right.[/quote]

if you state it like that, than you can have an opinion about anything ( and yes you can )

Example: someone who rapes and kills a 5 year old, we would call a monster. But you always have people that would call him a hero ( don't ask me why ). My point is, you should be realistic about your opinion, you need to give arguements.

edit: whats wrong with the quoting ?:P

Yes our light methods of torture are sooooo bad. At least we aren't cutting their damn hands and feet off. Or their heads for that matter. Saddam Hussein used to have people hang prisoners upside down from the ceiling and smash their feet until every bone was broken, and leave them hanging for days. And that's one of the lighter things that was done over there I'm sure.

Torture should be a viable option when it's obvious that the terrorist/criminal has plans for any sort of murder. One bad life shouldn't be spared pain so that innocent lives can die.

... this is not a good debate, no one is for torture... i step into the dark side

yes, torture should be allowed.....

it should be allowed on only the worst people

Of course you can have an opinion about everything.

I already did state my argument, read my previous post again.

You called them monsters. Define 'monster'.
You make him look like he kills without any goal or reason.
If he were to murder and destroy without any reason, then it'd be right to call him a monster.

But that's not true. That's not the case.

The terrorist does not fight without a goal.
He fights for what he thinks is right, for his goal.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying what the terrorist does is right.
Nor that I am in favor of their actions or anything like that.

But I simply do not believe that one of the parties, either way the USA or the terrorists, are monsters.
They both fight for what they think is right.

I agree with the point RuYi is making, especially her last post.
Oh and a freedom fighter is someone who fights against a force occupying their country? What is the US doing in Iraq basically?

I still think that terrorists are gay asses because they think killing inncoent people is what their god believes in (which is totally not true in Islam)

i laughed at that
ontopic: for no reason...no...in a bombing situation or something...yeah

Veritaserum.

Most of the US torture is psychological "scare" torture. Which is pretty hard on a body, i could deal with more physical pain that mental torture.

Rofl thats retarded, If that would happen, they would make everyone evacuate the area, then no one will get hurt

that is exactly what I mean, people that are fighting the U.S in Iraq, you can call freedom fighters, but when someone comes and kills innocent people that have nothing to do with the war, you can't call a freedom fighter.

And again, there is no good reason for killing 3000 innocent lifes.

UNLESS THAT WAS HIS PLAN! to make them Evac into the area around where there is a Perimeter of bombs.

ONTOPIC

YES torture should be allowed, Shock, inject, bullet to knee cap, cut off a finger. Problem is everyone is too nice, look at what murderers, terrorists, and serial killers do SHAMELESSLY! Show them we're not a pansy ass Society and rip them a new asshole. if i was in that place i would do it, screw them trying to hurt people i may know and love, innocents were not meant to die for nothing. I would gladly torture truth out of someone when talking FAILS (which it does mostly)

What would you do if some maniac rapist took your family/Loved ones hostage and was going to execute them, and you got your hands on the maniac and you caught him. Would you...

A] sit and have a cup of tea with him while discussing a way that you 2 can make a deal.
B] say "Meh, wouldnt want to hurt him"
C] TORTURE THAT SON OF A BITCH TILL HES READY TO TELL YOU!

Problem is like i said earlier people are TOO NICE!

there is nothing wrong with torture at all, 0, zilch, nada.

Love ya Foilin. I do have to agree with you here.



Only when it is unwarranted.

people are too nice my ass...i laughed at that actually...do you even realize what you said?

Anyway, I'm too lazy to read the whole thread, thus my opinion without arguments or counterarguments.

I'm against btw.

Don't be so provincial, those people who came and killed innocent lives have completely different viewpoints of what they are fighting for, they most likely think that we are terrorizing them by sending troops in to their country. Like RuYi said everyone holds a different viewpoint on things and to try and force your opinion no matter what is retarded.

@takolin @Ell oh ok thanks..

And is no right way to torture other ppl even if they are evil/bad ppl ,Be no different between you or them.. and you live whit it of rest of you life , who said is ok to do it.. So i belive is more human to make more easy way like whit other method, yea like give a Veritaserum.

ok, sorry the western world us too nice. (USA mainly)

yeah, like when they steal your carkeys or hide your mouse, keyboard and monitor. there is a limit, but in a dire "Other people are going to Die" reason bitch is going to get hurt.

PS need to stop and say hi in vent somtime i miss TE LOTS! too bad SRO sucks donkey ballz

You're only looking on one side. That's why you don't understand what I mean.

Injustice is injustice torture is torture you've all seen the Abu Ghraib pics...i don't condone torture only because by doing it were being hypocrites and we keep skating around the question whenever someone ask it. Another little problem that i have with it is that under our new War Times act if the gov't suspects you of being a terrorist you can get carted away and then tortured if necessary. I don't want this to turn into a fascist state where ppl can't express themselves without fear of torture, that sounds kinda like what saddam was doing....oh well

It doesn't matter if we're hypocrites because we run the world.

lol

i do understand what you're saying, but really there isn't anything to understand about. Just try to come up with one good reason why they killed those 3000 innocent people ?

My point is that you need reasons/arguments for your actions, but sometimes you don't have any reasons/arguments for your actions, which means your actions are useless.

I totally give up on you. >>

same , think we're both thinking totally diff about this subject, which is nice acutally

U.S. Soldiers have killed countless Iraqi civilians with their bombs so do we call them terrorists? No everyone thinks they are innocent and the only ones they kill are insurgents. Anyway I think torture will always be around and I support it. It's a good way of obtaining necessary information in a war.

True, would be boring if we all thought the same way about things.
That's why I like topics like these, in which people have complete different opinions about it. I think it's interesting what other people think and why they do.

i dont care torture them bastards, if they comit serious crimes like murder and terrorism then why not, they wont think twice about Farking us over